1 00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:33,689 the secrets will reach for the 2 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:35,320 connecting links between the delicious 3 00:00:39,149 --> 00:00:37,120 feeds of the group of secret society 4 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:39,159 outlaws we're creating a tightly 5 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:41,140 controlled rural society with them as 6 00:00:45,299 --> 00:00:42,970 bosses in your eye as slaves to their 7 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:45,309 system popularly known as the New World 8 00:00:49,829 --> 00:00:48,250 Order research indicates that most of 9 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:49,839 the unexplained craft we see in our 10 00:00:54,689 --> 00:00:52,570 skies up from somewhere on or inside our 11 00:00:56,250 --> 00:00:54,699 planet display the research of the haul 12 00:00:58,470 --> 00:00:56,260 road in subterranean theories in the 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:00:58,480 nineteen eighties nineties which in turn 14 00:01:02,819 --> 00:01:01,090 led to the realization that the answers 15 00:01:04,169 --> 00:01:02,829 we seek our the control the number of 16 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:04,179 other latest groups and secret societies 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:06,490 that we call collectively the 18 00:01:10,590 --> 00:01:08,770 controllers even a quick look at recent 19 00:01:13,250 --> 00:01:10,600 world events should convince anyone that 20 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:13,260 the controller's plan is working 21 00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:15,780 it is these factories for a Miss radio 22 00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:17,880 show join us as we work towards 23 00:01:30,060 --> 00:01:27,600 hey hey hey it's saturday night and this 24 00:01:33,210 --> 00:01:30,070 is timothy green beckley otherwise known 25 00:01:36,179 --> 00:01:33,220 as Tim beckley mr. UFO and along with 26 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:36,189 Carla Anderson over there in jersey city 27 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:40,090 and our friendly engineer and producer 28 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:44,860 the Jacka and go down in Miami we 29 00:01:51,289 --> 00:01:47,200 welcome you to another exciting episode 30 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:51,299 of unraveling the secrets well you know 31 00:01:58,289 --> 00:01:55,450 I'm a little bit hungry tonight in fact 32 00:02:01,830 --> 00:01:58,299 I think it's time to dine with the gods 33 00:02:04,289 --> 00:02:01,840 are special first I'm in the mood for 34 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:04,299 pancakes my cell phone oh oh yeah yeah 35 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:06,940 absolutely alien pancakes they're mine 36 00:02:14,009 --> 00:02:11,290 they're my favorite um anyway we have 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:14,019 little something in the air into the air 38 00:02:20,789 --> 00:02:17,530 Joshua kitchen and some people might say 39 00:02:23,490 --> 00:02:20,799 that joshua has a reputation for being a 40 00:02:26,569 --> 00:02:23,500 bit of a blowhard well actually he 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:26,579 started playing the tuba at age 12 and 42 00:02:34,170 --> 00:02:29,530 just the five years later he appeared on 43 00:02:36,630 --> 00:02:34,180 NBC's Today Show but outside of music 44 00:02:40,349 --> 00:02:36,640 which i guess is his career will find 45 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:40,359 out he's also interested in what we term 46 00:02:48,990 --> 00:02:45,609 14 phenomena and he's just written a 47 00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:49,000 very courageous very timely and very 48 00:02:55,770 --> 00:02:51,880 unusual book in fact it may be one of 49 00:02:59,580 --> 00:02:55,780 the most unusual books in the paranormal 50 00:03:02,460 --> 00:02:59,590 it's called a trojan feast and it's just 51 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:02,470 been released by anomalous the books i 52 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:04,450 think it's only been out maybe about a 53 00:03:11,789 --> 00:03:07,329 week or ten days joshua welcome to the 54 00:03:13,830 --> 00:03:11,799 show Tim are you doing there how are how 55 00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:13,840 are you you're down in Georgia are you 56 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:18,760 is I am on the Georgia well uh good good 57 00:03:24,830 --> 00:03:21,160 good to have you on I I know actually 58 00:03:27,509 --> 00:03:24,840 the book is getting quite a bit of o 59 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:27,519 attention I guess you would say it's 60 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:31,209 gotten some positive reviews I I know we 61 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:32,889 were on the air a couple of weeks ago 62 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:36,730 with Nick Redfern and peter robbins 63 00:03:42,390 --> 00:03:38,890 and we were talking about the case from 64 00:03:45,660 --> 00:03:42,400 Eagle River Wisconsin Joe Symington and 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:45,670 the pancake alien pancake and he said 66 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:47,530 well jeez you know you've really gotta 67 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:50,049 get ahold of this book the Trojan the 68 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:53,470 feast by Addison that's great it's great 69 00:03:59,250 --> 00:03:56,110 book it is great but the peppers over 70 00:04:00,630 --> 00:03:59,260 the bag it is good work well what would 71 00:04:02,819 --> 00:04:00,640 make you know how long have you been 72 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:02,829 investigating there you know like what 73 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:04,810 led up to this I mean most people are 74 00:04:10,110 --> 00:04:07,930 interested in maybe you know the the 75 00:04:12,119 --> 00:04:10,120 landing aspects are the abductions and 76 00:04:15,509 --> 00:04:12,129 some of the strange things that the go 77 00:04:17,819 --> 00:04:15,519 on uh but what led up to this I mean why 78 00:04:20,189 --> 00:04:17,829 did what did you decide to to do 79 00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:20,199 research into this particular aspect i 80 00:04:25,590 --> 00:04:22,870 was really bored to him i was at home 81 00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:25,600 and I'd like to do for a weekend and I 82 00:04:32,430 --> 00:04:28,960 started riding make sure you know the 83 00:04:35,219 --> 00:04:32,440 book stud yeah there must have been 84 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:35,229 something some I mean what was the case 85 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:37,240 that that drew drew this to your 86 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:41,110 attention and do with Paranormal 87 00:04:47,820 --> 00:04:43,150 Activity to him it was all over the 88 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:47,830 place had you had your own experiences 89 00:04:56,190 --> 00:04:51,940 yes what what what had happened to you 90 00:05:00,420 --> 00:04:56,200 what what sort of experiences did ya one 91 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:00,430 time I was a band camp this fit this guy 92 00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:07,930 sucks him um excuse me excuse me young 93 00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:13,630 lady Tim are I can't I can't continue 94 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:19,720 good goodbye what what is the story here 95 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:28,570 I well there we go looks like I've 96 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:31,090 driven another guest off the air well 97 00:05:39,870 --> 00:05:34,510 imma what are you doing what are you 98 00:05:42,689 --> 00:05:39,880 doing what are you doing and while we're 99 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:42,699 going to be talking to smiles Lewis like 100 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:43,510 that 101 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:46,900 I think noti'm should we tell him Carla 102 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:50,170 I think Carla no no no maybe you could 103 00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:52,030 get Josh wrote back on the line that 104 00:05:55,740 --> 00:05:53,680 let's try to get him back on the line 105 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:55,750 yeah that's a good idea hey got Tim no 106 00:06:00,330 --> 00:05:58,570 offense Tim but Wow can we that just 107 00:06:03,510 --> 00:06:00,340 happen I think that man was an impostor 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:03,520 I don't know what was once a turn you 109 00:06:07,050 --> 00:06:05,530 think he was an impostor we think so 110 00:06:08,750 --> 00:06:07,060 let's see if this is the see if we can 111 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:08,760 get Joshua it back on the line yeah 112 00:06:17,670 --> 00:06:15,160 hello oh my god Joshua that's what yes 113 00:06:18,930 --> 00:06:17,680 uh hello is this the real josh ward cuz 114 00:06:20,490 --> 00:06:18,940 we assist the real joshua i was 115 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:20,500 listening online and I was freaking out 116 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:22,150 I was like what's the hell is going on 117 00:06:30,510 --> 00:06:27,490 what was going on oh my uh yeah this is 118 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:30,520 the real Joshua kuchen oh it's okay so i 119 00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:33,610 can tell i could tell from here I'm 120 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:35,920 psychic well you're very you're very 121 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:37,360 person I thought I was the only one that 122 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:39,550 picked up on how fake that sounded Carla 123 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:40,990 I'm so glad I was in the only one I was 124 00:06:43,950 --> 00:06:42,670 going to I thought we might I thought we 125 00:06:46,410 --> 00:06:43,960 might be having a little problem with a 126 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:46,420 guess but I don't usually go after the 127 00:06:54,750 --> 00:06:49,710 jugular in the first five minutes 128 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:54,760 there's not that problematic geez Wow so 129 00:06:58,590 --> 00:06:56,860 don't try anything Joshua well you know 130 00:06:59,850 --> 00:06:58,600 that's right so how do we know this is 131 00:07:01,800 --> 00:06:59,860 the real Joshua though because we've 132 00:07:03,930 --> 00:07:01,810 been fooled once I could do it Gilead 133 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:03,940 pancakes okay go get my tuba that wasn't 134 00:07:07,590 --> 00:07:05,410 that might work no there you go can you 135 00:07:09,150 --> 00:07:07,600 blow hard it in fact it sound like you 136 00:07:11,610 --> 00:07:09,160 were talking through your tuba there for 137 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:11,620 a few sir well yeah uh in all 138 00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:13,390 seriousness what was that do we know was 139 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:14,860 it just uh he said something about a 140 00:07:19,020 --> 00:07:16,630 band camp I don't know you were you play 141 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:19,030 a tuba so yeah fair enough fair enough 142 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:21,970 yeah well there you go now everybody is 143 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:24,250 being hacked these days I guess we could 144 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:26,110 actually say that unraveling the secrets 145 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:28,990 has been hacked we were hacked my 146 00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:31,420 considered a form of a form of lottery 147 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:34,180 well there you go anyway seven years of 148 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:35,410 doing radio I've never had that happen 149 00:07:40,670 --> 00:07:37,870 to me before that's amazing I guess 150 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:40,680 we'll skype you can kind of sneak in 151 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:44,910 yeah I mean I guess I've been a producer 152 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:49,330 yeah well fair enough that's some crazy 153 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:51,130 so any we dealing with your yester 154 00:07:55,530 --> 00:07:53,440 templates yes all right we've had we've 155 00:07:57,450 --> 00:07:55,540 had our laughs for the evening now we 156 00:08:01,770 --> 00:07:57,460 should have our real laugh of what 157 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:01,780 evening uh Joshua ha let's go back to 158 00:08:06,990 --> 00:08:04,660 question one all right how did you 159 00:08:10,290 --> 00:08:07,000 decide her or what made you decide to 160 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:10,300 write a Trojan feast well you know uh 161 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:13,240 for me there's been this giant bullseye 162 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:15,460 on this aspect of the phenomena that no 163 00:08:18,029 --> 00:08:16,720 one has really talked about for a while 164 00:08:20,339 --> 00:08:18,039 and I've always been really interested 165 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:20,349 in fairy folk lore and how if you ate 166 00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:22,780 food from a fairy would be trapped in 167 00:08:26,730 --> 00:08:25,449 the fairy realm and I had a real light 168 00:08:28,589 --> 00:08:26,740 bulb moment I can even remember the 169 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:28,599 exact moment i was reading uh je Robert 170 00:08:32,730 --> 00:08:31,090 Ali's rainco Sasquatch which is a great 171 00:08:35,339 --> 00:08:32,740 book and in the book he actually 172 00:08:37,469 --> 00:08:35,349 mentions how some First Nations tribes 173 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:37,479 in Alaska say that if you take food from 174 00:08:41,550 --> 00:08:39,550 a book with which is their version of 175 00:08:43,889 --> 00:08:41,560 Sasquatch that you're actually doomed to 176 00:08:46,110 --> 00:08:43,899 remain with the Sasquatch forever so at 177 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:46,120 that moment I decided to stop waiting 178 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:47,380 for someone to write the book and go 179 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:49,690 ahead and write it myself um so I 180 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:50,770 reached out to my good friend micah 181 00:08:55,769 --> 00:08:52,810 Hanks uh who I seemed to feel a kindred 182 00:08:57,180 --> 00:08:55,779 spirit with and I I spoke with my gun he 183 00:08:59,100 --> 00:08:57,190 said this is a great idea nobody's ever 184 00:09:00,030 --> 00:08:59,110 done this go for it and he pointed me in 185 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:00,040 some directions and gave me some 186 00:09:05,819 --> 00:09:03,220 pointers and a year later I had the 187 00:09:07,199 --> 00:09:05,829 whole thing finished so mm-hmm and and 188 00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:07,209 you had no problem finding a publisher 189 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:11,920 uh no actually I you know I learned a 190 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:14,260 long time ago that there is uh there's 191 00:09:19,139 --> 00:09:16,450 no real elevator pitch for this book so 192 00:09:20,610 --> 00:09:19,149 i ended up i ended up getting some 193 00:09:23,550 --> 00:09:20,620 advice from Micah and I've always been a 194 00:09:25,230 --> 00:09:23,560 big fan of what Patrick wage has been 195 00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:25,240 doing over at an almost bow yes and I 196 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:28,120 reached out to him and he said I he says 197 00:09:31,199 --> 00:09:29,200 I don't know it sounds sort of like a 198 00:09:32,730 --> 00:09:31,209 niche idea he says I'm not sure might be 199 00:09:34,319 --> 00:09:32,740 little bit too specific and he got a 200 00:09:37,530 --> 00:09:34,329 little bit into it and said Josh I love 201 00:09:39,060 --> 00:09:37,540 it oh we're gonna go you know this in 202 00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:39,070 this day and age of publishing we're 203 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:42,160 publishing stands you know you gotta go 204 00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:44,170 with what you feel you want to do not 205 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:45,760 with what you feel is going to sell a 206 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:48,070 lot of copies because first of all as a 207 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:50,890 publisher of over 200 book you never 208 00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:52,510 really know what's going to sell I mean 209 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:54,160 I've got titles on there that I've never 210 00:09:58,980 --> 00:09:57,130 once had the author on on a radio or TV 211 00:10:01,769 --> 00:09:58,990 show because they've been dead for 30 or 212 00:10:04,350 --> 00:10:01,779 40 years or longer and and and the book 213 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:04,360 sells and and yet I can get some other 214 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:07,240 authors on every year the show going and 215 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:09,370 the book won't sell you know a hundred 216 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:11,290 copies it's just 217 00:10:16,019 --> 00:10:13,420 it's total it's totally amazing and of 218 00:10:19,499 --> 00:10:16,029 course now the whole a book market has 219 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:19,509 changed I mean we used to have 4,000 220 00:10:24,060 --> 00:10:22,089 bookstores on our mailing list and now I 221 00:10:26,999 --> 00:10:24,070 know there's a couple of hundred and 222 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:27,009 most of those are yoga centers and even 223 00:10:31,069 --> 00:10:28,720 a few stores that used to specialize in 224 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:31,079 this type of stuff they're making their 225 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:33,490 the go at it by selling what we call 226 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:37,120 sidelines you know mmm gypsy cards and 227 00:10:44,129 --> 00:10:41,470 incense and crystals and son may be nice 228 00:10:46,410 --> 00:10:44,139 Native American Jewelry and things along 229 00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:46,420 that line and and the books are almost 230 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:48,060 non-existent when you go into these 231 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:51,850 stores anymore but you know it's a good 232 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:54,550 thing and you've gotten the respect of 233 00:11:00,840 --> 00:10:57,370 the community and very quick order in 234 00:11:02,490 --> 00:11:00,850 some very favorable reviews and I I know 235 00:11:07,019 --> 00:11:02,500 I haven't gotten the book yet but I'm 236 00:11:09,210 --> 00:11:07,029 very excited about reading it what would 237 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:09,220 you say okay now we have we have how 238 00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:13,120 many cases altogether are in this Trojan 239 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:16,060 feast well uh first of all if I if I can 240 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:18,610 right quick um uh be on the lookout for 241 00:11:22,079 --> 00:11:20,170 it because I did speak to Patrick and 242 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:22,089 you should be good oh yes oh yes um so 243 00:11:26,370 --> 00:11:24,220 my apologies for not arriving sooner 244 00:11:29,460 --> 00:11:26,380 that's or that's okay you know i mean it 245 00:11:31,079 --> 00:11:29,470 it what it is it I uh it's it's sort of 246 00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:31,089 hard for me to put an exact number of 247 00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:34,089 the cases uh that I studied together 248 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:37,300 because the the areas of what you 249 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:39,910 consider foods sort of tend to get fuzzy 250 00:11:43,259 --> 00:11:41,290 at the edges sometimes you'll have 251 00:11:44,579 --> 00:11:43,269 people who just remember that they ate 252 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:44,589 something and some of these anomalous 253 00:11:48,689 --> 00:11:46,420 encounters or just remember that they 254 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:48,699 drank something or sometimes you'll have 255 00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:51,250 there was one example of a lady in 256 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:53,500 Ukraine who met a guy in a flying saucer 257 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:55,240 and was given a pill that he dropped 258 00:12:00,059 --> 00:11:57,730 into his water her water rather that she 259 00:12:01,410 --> 00:12:00,069 had a glass of water and it fizzed and 260 00:12:03,629 --> 00:12:01,420 changed colors and like how do you 261 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:03,639 qualify that is that earthly food with 262 00:12:08,179 --> 00:12:06,490 with you know or as where's that alien 263 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:08,189 food that's mixed with earthly food so 264 00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:10,930 the rough number of cases that I 265 00:12:16,259 --> 00:12:14,079 surveyed is about about 350 well what 266 00:12:18,809 --> 00:12:16,269 we'll see now you mentioning that case 267 00:12:23,009 --> 00:12:18,819 which I had never heard of reminds me of 268 00:12:24,420 --> 00:12:23,019 orfeo Angela see yes yes or is that in 269 00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:24,430 the book because that's a very straight 270 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:25,120 yeah 271 00:12:33,930 --> 00:12:30,970 directions that I go in the book make 272 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:33,940 the case of orfeo Angela G actually 273 00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:35,650 quite important but yeah that that is 274 00:12:38,970 --> 00:12:37,630 very reminiscent of or feos case and 275 00:12:41,579 --> 00:12:38,980 that's another one of those cases do you 276 00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:41,589 classify that as a pill or this nectar 277 00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:44,529 or do you classify it as as a liquid I 278 00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:46,270 ended up sort of classifying it as a 279 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:48,160 liquid because you know those the books 280 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:49,360 that he wrote are sort of like a love 281 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:52,810 poem to this weird never yeah but how 282 00:12:56,070 --> 00:12:54,490 about now he had a little stripper gal 283 00:12:58,290 --> 00:12:56,080 or something appeared in the glass of 284 00:13:00,930 --> 00:12:58,300 water and danced around for him is that 285 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:00,940 been reported before oh is that or feels 286 00:13:05,310 --> 00:13:03,730 a you know like a conjuration well you 287 00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:05,320 know I I don't think it's tipping my 288 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:07,660 hand too much to say that later book 289 00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:09,460 later chapters in the book sort of go 290 00:13:14,490 --> 00:13:11,830 into this idea of infusions and this 291 00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:14,500 idea of them what we would commonly call 292 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:15,880 hallucinogens although i don't i 293 00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:17,500 personally don't think they're as um 294 00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:20,800 they're as easily explained away as just 295 00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:23,200 being hallucinogens but um i think it 296 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:24,520 does sort of time to that a lot of the 297 00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:27,250 imagery that he saw was um somewhat akin 298 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:29,950 to hallucinogenic imagery anna i know 299 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:31,870 that nick redfern has been sort of 300 00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:34,150 toying with the idea that maybe he would 301 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:38,140 slip some LSD since he was especially on 302 00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:40,330 the second time he took this nectar he 303 00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:42,100 was around 29 palms California where 304 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:43,600 there's a lot of military personnel so 305 00:13:49,410 --> 00:13:46,510 um the things that he experienced are 306 00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:49,420 not all that dissimilar from some of the 307 00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:51,279 things that people have experienced now 308 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:52,630 I want to make it very clear that I'm 309 00:13:57,570 --> 00:13:55,930 not necessarily saying that um the food 310 00:13:59,010 --> 00:13:57,580 that people receive is in theah genic 311 00:14:03,180 --> 00:13:59,020 just that there might get connection 312 00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,190 there mmm now did you find that it was 313 00:14:11,130 --> 00:14:05,920 prevalent for a lot of these early 314 00:14:13,890 --> 00:14:11,140 contact these two to break bread with 315 00:14:15,740 --> 00:14:13,900 their alien brothers or is it more 316 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:15,750 prevalent with the abduction stories 317 00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:17,290 absolutely well you know there are a 318 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:18,760 couple of clear trends that really 319 00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:21,370 emerged and um one of the clear trends 320 00:14:28,590 --> 00:14:24,820 in the alien phenomena is that abductees 321 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:28,600 tend to receive either liquids or pills 322 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:31,690 and they are almost always consumed 323 00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:35,050 under duress sometimes force-fed the 324 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:38,150 liquids are usually either in abduction 325 00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:41,510 are usually either a very bitter or 326 00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,040 cloyingly sweet one or the other um in 327 00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:47,360 contact T cases you run into a lot of 328 00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:50,270 people receiving fruit juice and fruits 329 00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:52,430 and fruits and bread there was a South 330 00:14:56,740 --> 00:14:54,800 African contact he Elizabeth Clara I'm 331 00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:56,750 not sure if you're familiar with her but 332 00:15:02,140 --> 00:14:59,600 ya know in fact she's in our there's a 333 00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:02,150 chapter on her in our book that we just 334 00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:05,180 published the UFO repeaters the camera 335 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:07,580 doesn't lie because apparently she she 336 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:10,730 was she was in a damn ski a follower uh 337 00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:13,070 and she claims actually to have a 338 00:15:18,370 --> 00:15:15,800 married a an extraterrestrial and had a 339 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:18,380 child on some other planet yes her her 340 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:22,670 lover akon um and he actually had a away 341 00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:25,250 on conversation with her latricia make 342 00:15:35,470 --> 00:15:28,880 on a cake like the guy who sings inca 343 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:35,480 know maybe maybe one of the same oh but 344 00:15:40,990 --> 00:15:38,450 he put a he was he actually went at some 345 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:41,000 length describing to her hell um she 346 00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:43,370 should consume chica should consume 347 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:44,900 salads and fruits because her earthly 348 00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:46,730 body was actually yearning for that sort 349 00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,550 of unique sustenance so you know that's 350 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:51,440 that's that's funny my my doctor just 351 00:15:56,830 --> 00:15:54,770 recommended that this week you should 352 00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:56,840 check it is cuz your doctor from another 353 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:02,000 planet I am I won't say possibly Potter 354 00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:04,430 i think all doctors are from some other 355 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:09,440 planet if you ask me I ok can you can 356 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:12,050 you think of any other like contacting 357 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:13,760 the contactees interest me much more 358 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:15,830 than the abductees be honestly I don't 359 00:16:20,140 --> 00:16:18,050 know I not that I necessarily believe 360 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:20,150 them any more than I do the abductees 361 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:22,130 but I love their stories at least 362 00:16:25,870 --> 00:16:24,050 they're at least they're positive you 363 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:25,880 know and where a lot of the abduction 364 00:16:31,660 --> 00:16:27,290 the stories are certainly rather 365 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:31,670 negative in in tone yeah I do find the i 366 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:33,770 do find the contactee stories it very 367 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:35,180 interesting especially from you know the 368 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:38,510 the Greg Bishop standpoint of viewing 369 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:40,490 them made perhaps through the lens of an 370 00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:42,410 identified art movement or something but 371 00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:44,030 yeah you know there are a lot of these 372 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:47,120 cases that I run out have run up against 373 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:47,930 where I'm like I don't necessarily 374 00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:50,090 believe this but I'm just putting this 375 00:16:52,820 --> 00:16:51,660 out there in this book saying that the 376 00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:52,830 is what it is because you know no one 377 00:16:57,020 --> 00:16:54,420 had ever really compiled a list like 378 00:16:59,330 --> 00:16:57,030 this I try to say I try to use the word 379 00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:59,340 allegedly and purportedly too many times 380 00:17:04,550 --> 00:17:01,920 I can but one of those I stop do I 381 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:04,560 stopped doing that the years ago we are 382 00:17:08,450 --> 00:17:07,170 gonna take it forward ha take it for 383 00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:08,460 what it's worth it make up your own mind 384 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:10,740 that's you know that's that's what I I 385 00:17:14,330 --> 00:17:12,570 say about most of this you know fair 386 00:17:16,850 --> 00:17:14,340 fair enough well one of those gentlemen 387 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:16,860 that I mentioned was a Mexico City 388 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:19,770 contact week from 1954 Armando Zubrin 389 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:22,130 are you familiar with this gentleman um 390 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:24,570 given he walked one of the things that 391 00:17:29,390 --> 00:17:25,950 people talk about in his particular 392 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:29,400 encounter was he had this Martian shower 393 00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:31,890 where he had this like a waterless 394 00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:34,710 shower that was shot at him ah he was he 395 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:36,630 was picked up and he was given the some 396 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:38,220 sort of his hosts apparently said that 397 00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:41,310 they preferred some sort of some sort of 398 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:43,470 milk to drink whenever they would 399 00:17:49,220 --> 00:17:45,930 whenever they would sup but he was given 400 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:49,230 this this this breakfast that included 401 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:50,910 like grilled meat and butter and cheese 402 00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:52,890 and fruit juice that tasted like mango 403 00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:55,020 on another fruits to say I can see 404 00:17:58,460 --> 00:17:56,790 they've come a long way in those days in 405 00:18:00,860 --> 00:17:58,470 those days they wanted a glass of milk 406 00:18:03,530 --> 00:18:00,870 now they want the whole cow I mean come 407 00:18:06,050 --> 00:18:03,540 on that just goes to show ya there she 408 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:06,060 was he yet was he the cab driver because 409 00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:07,890 there were a couple of lk there were a 410 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,870 couple area right there yeah yeah round 411 00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:12,960 the same same time you Scott Corrales 412 00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:16,230 wrote that up for us yes yeah actually 413 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:19,140 you don't my favorite my favorite story 414 00:18:24,050 --> 00:18:21,690 of course is the alien pancakes the 415 00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:24,060 Xperia experience of Joe with Symington 416 00:18:31,730 --> 00:18:27,840 who lived in Eagle River River constant 417 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:31,740 yeah in fact we have a we have a treat 418 00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:35,910 this evening we have a an audio that I 419 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:37,590 think last for three or four minutes 420 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:41,520 where Joe virus is remarkable the story 421 00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:43,890 so maybe maybe this is a good point to 422 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:45,870 to apply it and then we can come back 423 00:18:49,790 --> 00:18:47,970 and discuss that case for a few minutes 424 00:18:52,450 --> 00:18:49,800 and then onto the onto the next 425 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:52,460 scrumptious little tidbit sounds great 426 00:18:56,930 --> 00:18:55,170 alright well we seem to be having a 427 00:19:00,920 --> 00:18:56,940 little technical problem with playing 428 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:00,930 that audio that goes back to I think 19 429 00:19:05,299 --> 00:19:04,890 was at 1975 do you remember uh no it was 430 00:19:11,509 --> 00:19:05,309 earlier 431 00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:11,519 i believe it was 64 61 61 61 yeah um 432 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:15,240 quite early yeah it was it was a pretty 433 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:17,129 interesting story and it did get a 434 00:19:22,690 --> 00:19:20,610 little bit of attention I mean in the 435 00:19:26,210 --> 00:19:22,700 press and in those days it was a 436 00:19:28,369 --> 00:19:26,220 peculiar incident where this fellow Joe 437 00:19:30,919 --> 00:19:28,379 Symington I guess was out early one 438 00:19:32,899 --> 00:19:30,929 morning and he saw the glittering you 439 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:32,909 know like dome of a craft there and he 440 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:36,210 was welcome on board the ship and there 441 00:19:39,019 --> 00:19:37,710 were a couple of little men inside I 442 00:19:40,989 --> 00:19:39,029 mean I don't think they were Tolan in 443 00:19:43,489 --> 00:19:40,999 stature but they were human looking and 444 00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:43,499 they invited him in and asked if he 445 00:19:47,899 --> 00:19:45,960 would like something to eat and they 446 00:19:51,409 --> 00:19:47,909 produce say I think three or four of 447 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:51,419 these pancakes now they were submitted 448 00:19:56,659 --> 00:19:54,809 for analysis I believe he sent one to 449 00:19:58,639 --> 00:19:56,669 night at the National investigations 450 00:20:01,399 --> 00:19:58,649 committee on area phenomena which was a 451 00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:01,409 bad mistake on his part certainly had 452 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:03,720 and I remember the analysis that they 453 00:20:08,509 --> 00:20:05,850 got that he got back make absolutely no 454 00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:08,519 sense in fact it didn't seem to have 455 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:10,460 anything to do with a pancake at all I 456 00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:12,570 don't know what they were trying to say 457 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:14,820 but obviously you know major Keyhoe uh 458 00:20:19,730 --> 00:20:17,850 and probably had too much syrup did to 459 00:20:21,019 --> 00:20:19,740 eat one morning anyway he wasn't he 460 00:20:24,049 --> 00:20:21,029 wasn't prone to believe in any of the 461 00:20:27,049 --> 00:20:24,059 contact the stories uh you know he felt 462 00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:27,059 that they were a ridiculing of the the 463 00:20:32,509 --> 00:20:30,299 field you know and wear them uh tried to 464 00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:32,519 you know prevent them and he hated 465 00:20:36,379 --> 00:20:34,470 Adamski of course and he hated gym 466 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:36,389 mostly in fact I don't know anybody that 467 00:20:42,859 --> 00:20:40,230 he liked comes along well you know it's 468 00:20:45,499 --> 00:20:42,869 it's it's that that factor that I always 469 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:45,509 I personally am quite invested in as is 470 00:20:53,230 --> 00:20:49,529 this constant this constant self-mockery 471 00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:53,240 that these encounters tend to sort of 472 00:20:59,330 --> 00:20:57,419 sort of engender um you know I I find 473 00:21:00,919 --> 00:20:59,340 that the weirder a story is the more 474 00:21:03,169 --> 00:21:00,929 likely i personally am to believe it 475 00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:03,179 because it's just just a just a bizarre 476 00:21:08,419 --> 00:21:05,820 madly of the simonton case and if you 477 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:08,429 you know I I have a the case is sort of 478 00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:09,690 near and dear to my heart for another 479 00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:10,980 reason because it did my undergraduate 480 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:12,809 work at the University of Wisconsin and 481 00:21:17,269 --> 00:21:15,240 had I noticed that that was good am you 482 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:17,279 about that yeah yeah and having having 483 00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:18,809 had plenty of interactions 484 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:20,220 people of the Upper Midwest there are 485 00:21:24,289 --> 00:21:21,870 some great people and some really 486 00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:24,299 down-to-earth people and I can I can't 487 00:21:27,919 --> 00:21:25,740 think of a conceivable reason why a 488 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:27,929 chicken farmer from Eagle River but wont 489 00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:30,600 to bring so much ridicule upon himself 490 00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:33,419 so and you know he had the pancakes to 491 00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:34,740 prove it so I don't know really what 492 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:37,470 that and I got the audio to approve it 493 00:21:44,060 --> 00:21:41,730 there oh great okay but let us listen to 494 00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:44,070 this very brief odio a joy Pennington 495 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:46,289 telling his own story in his own words 496 00:21:54,259 --> 00:21:50,730 and this is a very rare archive so yes 497 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:54,269 listen extremely area where do you meet 498 00:22:00,350 --> 00:21:57,210 someone from outer space perhaps in the 499 00:22:02,509 --> 00:22:00,360 North Woods joe simon son of Eagle River 500 00:22:06,259 --> 00:22:02,519 Wisconsin spin the yarn about an april 501 00:22:09,259 --> 00:22:06,269 morning in 1961 the morning when he says 502 00:22:12,409 --> 00:22:09,269 he came face-to-face with another world 503 00:22:15,769 --> 00:22:12,419 right here is where this flying saucer 504 00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:15,779 that UFO landed right here bout where 505 00:22:22,369 --> 00:22:19,860 I'm standing and it was a big huge thing 506 00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:22,379 and I wondered what the heck it was I 507 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:25,679 was in my kitchen having a bite of lunch 508 00:22:30,379 --> 00:22:28,289 and I turned around but the dishes in 509 00:22:32,509 --> 00:22:30,389 the sink and I looked out the window and 510 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:32,519 that's when I first saw this thing 511 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:34,289 coming straight down just like an 512 00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,450 elevator 513 00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:38,480 and first I thought the ropes went off 514 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:40,070 in my house and I thought in all the 515 00:22:45,009 --> 00:22:42,049 Rope is green this is bright what the 516 00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:45,019 heck is it so I raced out to see what it 517 00:22:49,299 --> 00:22:47,510 was and by that time to the hatchway 518 00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:49,309 opening up in the top of it just like 519 00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,980 the trunk of your car and then there's 520 00:22:57,700 --> 00:22:54,559 been a little man I say a little man is 521 00:23:01,690 --> 00:22:57,710 about five foot tall bowling up a jug or 522 00:23:04,330 --> 00:23:01,700 a container and emotion they want to 523 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:04,340 drink emotions for water so I walked up 524 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:08,690 to him to get this jug and I looked at 525 00:23:13,389 --> 00:23:10,610 his eyes and he was so penetrating that 526 00:23:17,409 --> 00:23:13,399 I had to look away so I went to the 527 00:23:19,570 --> 00:23:17,419 basement to get this water and I thought 528 00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:19,580 well I want water so I'll take it up to 529 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:21,919 him and see what happens and was that I 530 00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:23,510 brought the water up and he was looking 531 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:25,220 at me when I first came out of the 532 00:23:29,649 --> 00:23:27,500 basement but I didn't look at his face 533 00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:29,659 until I got right up to him and I looked 534 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:31,460 up and I handed the jug up with both 535 00:23:39,820 --> 00:23:34,370 hands and I had that same look in his 536 00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:39,830 eyes sort of a penetrating look and when 537 00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:42,260 he took the water I bounced myself with 538 00:23:45,380 --> 00:23:43,080 this hand 539 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:45,390 against the machine and I stepped back a 540 00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:51,450 few steps and then with that he sets the 541 00:23:56,330 --> 00:23:54,299 jump down and he gave me a salute to the 542 00:23:59,539 --> 00:23:56,340 back of his hand the gesture thanks I 543 00:24:03,399 --> 00:23:59,549 presume and then all I gave him I 544 00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:03,409 suppose what am I going to do so I 545 00:24:08,539 --> 00:24:06,539 noticed this little man same size of a 546 00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:08,549 man like the side the right side of the 547 00:24:15,980 --> 00:24:10,799 hatchway cooking you're cooking these 548 00:24:18,289 --> 00:24:15,990 pancakes which I have one year yet see 549 00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:18,299 where he was trying these these pancakes 550 00:24:25,399 --> 00:24:23,190 and I pointed to him and made a gesture 551 00:24:27,529 --> 00:24:25,409 like eating I thought maybe I get a 552 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:27,539 conversation out of nobody was saying 553 00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:32,610 anything but he he didn't say a word he 554 00:24:37,399 --> 00:24:34,289 just restored and he got a handful 555 00:24:41,060 --> 00:24:37,409 before him he handed down to me and they 556 00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,070 were hot and greasy and this is a man 557 00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:42,960 cooking these pancakes it was on a 558 00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:46,350 square grill like concerned I couldn't 559 00:24:51,889 --> 00:24:47,820 see any flame but it seemed to be very 560 00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:51,899 hot to smoke coming from it and if that 561 00:24:56,539 --> 00:24:54,750 was their food god help them because I 562 00:24:58,860 --> 00:24:56,549 took a bite at one of them and it tasted 563 00:25:01,320 --> 00:24:58,870 like a piece of cardboard 564 00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:01,330 and that's what they lived on no wonder 565 00:25:06,150 --> 00:25:03,430 they're small and with that he reached 566 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:06,160 up and he closed his hats with a heavy 567 00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:09,160 thud quick like film at last and he 568 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:11,260 couldn't a bit more see where that hatch 569 00:25:17,250 --> 00:25:13,770 was and you could be a hole in my hand 570 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:17,260 and with that the same started to raise 571 00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:19,210 it's like it came down everything was 572 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:21,280 time for Thea went up about 20 feet 573 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:25,450 until at a 45-degree straight south and 574 00:25:30,780 --> 00:25:28,210 shallow within two or three seconds it 575 00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:30,790 was out of sight well there I saw it in 576 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:32,860 the driveway with a handful of greasy 577 00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:35,440 pancakes my mouth open wondering what 578 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:38,830 the heck I'd saw what had happened it is 579 00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:42,040 outside the realm of the Air Force to 580 00:25:48,419 --> 00:25:45,150 pass judgment on mr. Simon to take 581 00:25:50,490 --> 00:25:48,429 however the pancakes that he turned over 582 00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:50,500 to the Air Force were turned over to the 583 00:25:58,669 --> 00:25:52,840 Food and Drug people and they were 584 00:26:01,470 --> 00:25:58,679 analyzed as pure buckwheat Spanky Jim 585 00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:01,480 well there's the story of Jose 586 00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:05,190 assignment in right from the the farmers 587 00:26:12,299 --> 00:26:09,580 mouth I wonder I wonder a Josh if the 588 00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:12,309 one the pancake still exists because the 589 00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:14,710 Antonio who knows who told me that it 590 00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:18,309 was in a display case in the cafeteria 591 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:20,140 down at wright-patterson Air Force Base 592 00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:22,650 along with some other supposed UFO 593 00:26:28,049 --> 00:26:26,200 evidence but then good ol Joe claims 594 00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:28,059 that the pancakes were switched on him I 595 00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:30,340 think anyway but the Air Force said that 596 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:32,710 they were nothing but buckwheat pancakes 597 00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:34,030 I don't know they look they look pretty 598 00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:36,190 strange and I don't think he would make 599 00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:39,100 that up I mean it's just like it's a 600 00:26:42,990 --> 00:26:40,720 quick it's too crazy of a story to 601 00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:43,000 concoct it I mean you could say maybe 602 00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:45,580 aliens landed in my back yard and they 603 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:47,500 they came down the ramp and waived or 604 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:49,210 something but to say they gave you 605 00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:53,290 pancakes just seems a little right over 606 00:26:58,290 --> 00:26:55,540 the top no I I totally understand and 607 00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,300 you know I I one of my main interest in 608 00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:00,400 putting this book together was it should 609 00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,809 be obvious by now as these little these 610 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:03,760 links that thread different phenomena 611 00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:05,650 together and since you haven't had a 612 00:27:09,450 --> 00:27:07,240 chance to read the book yet i'll go 613 00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:09,460 ahead and mention this will tidbit Oh in 614 00:27:13,010 --> 00:27:12,160 my research I found this these legends 615 00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,020 about these 616 00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:16,480 small elves in the fries and islands 617 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:18,220 which are off the coast of denmark and 618 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:21,310 germany and they are called the owner 619 00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:23,830 been ski and one of the things they do 620 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:27,220 is they bring fresh water and pancakes 621 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:30,760 to farmers in the field so i found that 622 00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:32,050 to be an interesting little parallel 623 00:27:35,310 --> 00:27:33,820 between that and what simonton says he 624 00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:35,320 encountered because water and pancakes 625 00:27:39,690 --> 00:27:36,580 were both you know in play in that 626 00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:39,700 encounter mm-hmm do we have to bring our 627 00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:43,120 own syrup or do they provide that well 628 00:27:46,740 --> 00:27:44,380 according to Betty andreas and they 629 00:27:49,550 --> 00:27:46,750 bring their own syrup she had a sort of 630 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:49,560 syrupy liquid force down her throat so 631 00:27:58,860 --> 00:27:55,570 mm that's kinky and and why did they 632 00:28:00,780 --> 00:27:58,870 ever explain why um not that I'm aware 633 00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:00,790 of you know it's interesting if you look 634 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:04,150 at a lot of these encounters a lot of 635 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:07,090 them tend to a bookend the food rather 636 00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:08,650 tends to book in via encounter neither 637 00:28:12,690 --> 00:28:10,660 comes at the very beginning of an event 638 00:28:15,090 --> 00:28:12,700 or towards the end of an event I think 639 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:15,100 there's a clue there um but what's also 640 00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:17,170 apparent to me is that these people are 641 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:18,910 in this these situations for a 642 00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:20,590 relatively short amount of time this 643 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:22,780 isn't for sustenance it's to administer 644 00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:24,130 some effect I think that's pretty clear 645 00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:27,340 too um I know what that effect is is 646 00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:29,470 still up for debate but i think that the 647 00:28:34,650 --> 00:28:31,960 data tends to suggest that you know 648 00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:34,660 you're not getting this drink just to 649 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:38,230 keep you from being parched now i have i 650 00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:43,290 have the ultimate mixed saucer 651 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:47,260 experience and this was an item an 652 00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:49,810 article that appeared in the aerial 653 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:51,460 phenomena research organizations 654 00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:53,170 bulletin the apparel bullet in many many 655 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:54,480 years ago of course because the 656 00:28:59,010 --> 00:28:56,770 organization has been the fun probably 657 00:29:03,090 --> 00:28:59,020 for three decades something like that 658 00:29:07,850 --> 00:29:03,100 anyway there was a family they were 659 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:07,860 driving up in the Oregon mountains and 660 00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:10,510 they were running on sure to get running 661 00:29:14,250 --> 00:29:11,920 short of gas and it was getting a little 662 00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:14,260 I guess the late in the day and they 663 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:17,140 weren't exactly sure where they were so 664 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:19,240 they actually needed some sort of 665 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:21,340 assistance and they were driving down 666 00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:23,410 one of the back mountain roads and they 667 00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:26,710 saw a Oh a fast food 668 00:29:31,289 --> 00:29:29,200 round of some kind which is surprised 669 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:31,299 not surprising for us with shaped 670 00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:33,580 somewhat like a flying saucer yeah I 671 00:29:37,649 --> 00:29:35,350 think this is in Crater Lake Oregon 672 00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:37,659 right I thinks I you know I i don't i 673 00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:40,000 don't remember the countess it's a it's 674 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:42,159 a first we got eagle river and now we 675 00:29:46,019 --> 00:29:44,770 got crater I like I think we're think 676 00:29:49,289 --> 00:29:46,029 we're thinking of the same I think we're 677 00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,299 thinking this is a sure yeah ok so the 678 00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:52,000 they run out of gas but the car somehow 679 00:29:57,539 --> 00:29:54,520 seems to coast into the parking lot 680 00:29:59,100 --> 00:29:57,549 mm-hmm and so they they park and they 681 00:30:01,529 --> 00:29:59,110 get out and they go inside to I guess 682 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:01,539 you know Astra directions are or find 683 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:02,890 out where they might call they get 684 00:30:07,409 --> 00:30:05,250 somebody to come with a can of gas and 685 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:07,419 they figure where they have some time 686 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:10,809 you know while this is going on maybe to 687 00:30:15,690 --> 00:30:13,090 get a bite to eat so now everybody 688 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:15,700 inside the restaurant is addressed in 689 00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:17,770 kind of silver LeMay you know very 690 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:21,039 futuristic looking space type of outfits 691 00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:24,370 and everybody is very polite and there 692 00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:26,980 are a few you know human-looking people 693 00:30:32,130 --> 00:30:29,500 there waiting on them and and then there 694 00:30:33,539 --> 00:30:32,140 are some robot on you know to something 695 00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:33,549 right out of Star Wars or something 696 00:30:36,810 --> 00:30:35,350 clicking and clacking than a halt and 697 00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:36,820 and the children I think there were a 698 00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:38,799 couple of children maybe tina early 699 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:41,320 teenagers and they they were very you 700 00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:42,970 know they were very excited about this 701 00:30:47,730 --> 00:30:45,899 and they all enjoyed the food now 702 00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:47,740 somehow I don't know if they got 703 00:30:52,649 --> 00:30:50,529 instructions for the the the way to get 704 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:52,659 the gas but they got back into the car 705 00:30:57,810 --> 00:30:55,090 and the car coasted out of the parking 706 00:31:00,990 --> 00:30:57,820 lot of the saucer shaped fast-food 707 00:31:02,580 --> 00:31:01,000 restaurant and it turned over and it 708 00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:02,590 continued on its way and got them to 709 00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:05,529 where they were going well now everybody 710 00:31:10,529 --> 00:31:07,620 had such a good time at this futuristic 711 00:31:13,409 --> 00:31:10,539 restaurant they wanted to return like a 712 00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:13,419 couple of weeks later and order another 713 00:31:19,019 --> 00:31:17,320 you know a saucer burger and and so they 714 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:19,029 they they drove back to where they 715 00:31:24,419 --> 00:31:20,890 thought the restaurant was but they 716 00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:24,429 couldn't find it ya know that the locals 717 00:31:28,169 --> 00:31:26,260 didn't know of the restaurant at all and 718 00:31:31,950 --> 00:31:28,179 they hadn't lost any money from the 719 00:31:33,899 --> 00:31:31,960 interaction either sir well all that so 720 00:31:37,019 --> 00:31:33,909 that that that is a story but i think 721 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:37,029 that would rate as my top incident of 722 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:39,250 this type of course we don't have the 723 00:31:44,610 --> 00:31:40,210 family to talk to 724 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:44,620 but if it were in the APRA bulletin it's 725 00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:47,230 a good chance you know that certainly 726 00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:48,580 the witnesses the people involved 727 00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:50,380 existed I don't think that they met you 728 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:51,670 know they didn't obviously make it up 729 00:31:57,570 --> 00:31:55,690 from from you know just make it up it 730 00:32:01,170 --> 00:31:57,580 was obviously something that had been 731 00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:01,180 reported in to them so I know there's a 732 00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:04,440 story that kind of a kind of goes wrong 733 00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:07,030 well again we had no way of contacting 734 00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:10,030 or interviewing the witnesses I don't 735 00:32:14,820 --> 00:32:11,500 even think their names were necessarily 736 00:32:17,220 --> 00:32:14,830 you know given uh no I don't think so 737 00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:17,230 they were selected they liked it enough 738 00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:18,790 that they would they wanted to go back 739 00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:20,380 to the restaurant and order another bag 740 00:32:24,690 --> 00:32:22,780 of burgers yeah I mean not that I'm 741 00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:24,700 aware of were there any real effects um 742 00:32:30,450 --> 00:32:28,420 I do know that Thomas Bullard who wrote 743 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:30,460 the foreword for the book um actually 744 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:33,490 compiled this in his UFO abductions 745 00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:35,530 measure of a mystery compendium back in 746 00:32:40,050 --> 00:32:38,440 the back in the 80s which is which was 747 00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:40,060 it that you know the time and still is a 748 00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:41,980 great touch done for a lot of this 749 00:32:45,510 --> 00:32:43,390 information but yeah I was interesting 750 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:45,520 the mother's memory sharpened about a 751 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:47,500 decade and a half later and she couldn't 752 00:32:51,090 --> 00:32:48,850 fuse pretty sure at that point that they 753 00:32:53,130 --> 00:32:51,100 hadn't visited a restaurant so you know 754 00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:53,140 I mean the question is if if if they 755 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:54,400 were able to make these people think 756 00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:56,650 that it was a restaurant either these 757 00:33:01,770 --> 00:32:58,330 people were so tired or there was some 758 00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:01,780 sort of screen memory you know aspect in 759 00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:03,190 place and the question is if there was a 760 00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:05,380 screen memory in place then what were 761 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:07,420 they eating you know in which Bray which 762 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:09,730 opens up a whole can of worms about can 763 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:11,290 we take any of these things at face 764 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:12,730 value you know someone says that they're 765 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:15,010 being given an extraterrestrial 766 00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:16,810 pomegranate are they really or is it 767 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:19,510 something that being cloaked in another 768 00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:21,310 way you know you know they might have 769 00:33:31,950 --> 00:33:30,450 unfortunately yes that thatthat's not 770 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:31,960 that horse is a horse of course of 771 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:34,990 course yeah there you go yeah well okay 772 00:33:39,090 --> 00:33:36,970 well what what what would you consider 773 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:39,100 the most famous cases where people have 774 00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,810 received food from aliens from South 775 00:33:45,210 --> 00:33:42,640 question from fairies and how does the 776 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:45,220 food differ I mean do err aliens have a 777 00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:47,290 different tastes in food than Sasquatch 778 00:33:52,050 --> 00:33:50,200 or fairies well I'm you're definitely I 779 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:52,060 mean I think we know we touch on the 780 00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:53,770 silent in case which is 781 00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:55,180 definitely the poster child for the sort 782 00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:56,950 of phenomenon if if you don't think 783 00:34:03,330 --> 00:33:58,720 about manna from heaven being sort of 784 00:34:06,420 --> 00:34:03,340 you know BS as well um but that's that's 785 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:06,430 far and away the most famous of the of 786 00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:09,490 the if you just want to lump abductees 787 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:11,470 and contact he's on one in one barrel 788 00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:13,300 that's the most famous of those of those 789 00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:15,580 encounters on the most famous Sasquatch 790 00:34:18,990 --> 00:34:16,840 encounter where someone received food 791 00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:19,000 was probably the Albert Ostman encounter 792 00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:22,390 um where gentlemen who in 1957 said he 793 00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:24,040 was picked up in his sleeping bag and 794 00:34:28,649 --> 00:34:26,590 dropped off with a sasquatch family and 795 00:34:30,899 --> 00:34:28,659 the course of a couple of days he gave 796 00:34:35,130 --> 00:34:30,909 them some quote unquote sweet roots that 797 00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:35,140 had a satisfying taste um I was why 798 00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:37,270 would I tried to escape from their 799 00:34:43,889 --> 00:34:41,350 encampment yeah exactly what I bring my 800 00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:43,899 own or bring my own food next time yeah 801 00:34:48,060 --> 00:34:46,270 exactly um he is the funny thing is he 802 00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:48,070 was actually able to escape with with 803 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:51,100 food items he uh he convinced the the 804 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:54,250 father of the of the group to eat to eat 805 00:34:58,350 --> 00:34:56,890 some of his snuff and when the when it 806 00:35:01,950 --> 00:34:58,360 didn't like the way the snuff tasted he 807 00:35:03,570 --> 00:35:01,960 gave it scalding hot coffee and and was 808 00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:03,580 able to create a distraction because you 809 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:05,080 know he had his pack with him as well so 810 00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:06,510 he was able to make those uh those 811 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:11,380 commiss tables um but mm-hmm I know it's 812 00:35:15,630 --> 00:35:13,930 interesting there's there are I brought 813 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:15,640 Sasquatch into this cut into the 814 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:16,990 discussion because of the similarities 815 00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:18,970 between that and the fairy food trope 816 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:21,870 but Sasquatch tend to be the only 817 00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:26,050 entities who offer meat really generally 818 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:28,300 speaking um you know you'll run into a 819 00:35:30,990 --> 00:35:29,470 couple of encounters here and there 820 00:35:33,630 --> 00:35:31,000 where somebody receives an 821 00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:33,640 extraterrestrial steak or something but 822 00:35:37,770 --> 00:35:36,460 by and large a lot of the foods that 823 00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:37,780 people receive in all these encounters 824 00:35:44,070 --> 00:35:40,830 from fairies and aliens and Sasquatch 825 00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,080 conform loosely to al active vegetarian 826 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:45,760 diet and they're mostly pretty healthy 827 00:35:49,980 --> 00:35:47,290 foods with the exception of pills and 828 00:35:52,830 --> 00:35:49,990 God knows what they are um fairies tend 829 00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:52,840 to give bread and like a wine or or a 830 00:35:57,810 --> 00:35:55,030 punch or something as I mentioned before 831 00:36:01,080 --> 00:35:57,820 aliens tend to give i mean the the the 832 00:36:03,180 --> 00:36:01,090 scales are are lopsided in favor of 833 00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,190 liquid by like a sixty percent margin 834 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:05,440 it's a huge amount of cases that i 835 00:36:10,020 --> 00:36:07,210 studied that involve liquid 836 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:10,030 um which also ties into some ideas that 837 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:12,490 I have as well I gotta go and break by 838 00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:15,750 the way guys okay four minutes okay 839 00:36:23,339 --> 00:36:19,320 mm-hmm oh we will be we will be back 840 00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,349 well we're back with the Real Joshua 841 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:25,839 kitchen and this is tim buckley on 842 00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:29,530 unraveling the secrets with Carla 843 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:33,280 Anderson proprietor of a balance the 844 00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:37,810 only UFO oriented mothership and hair 845 00:36:45,660 --> 00:36:41,440 salon and gallery and she's awake maybe 846 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:45,670 you just think it's a hair salon well I 847 00:36:49,770 --> 00:36:47,710 I sometimes I put liquidy stuff down 848 00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:49,780 people you know I was just saying I go I 849 00:36:54,660 --> 00:36:52,990 i can remember having free drinks I can 850 00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:54,670 remember having a few drinks and passing 851 00:37:02,520 --> 00:36:57,520 out in the backyard so right right there 852 00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:02,530 feel like syrup definitely sir I do 853 00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:04,540 believe that that is the case and down 854 00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:07,300 in Florida we have the master of all of 855 00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:11,440 this who brings us to the airwaves every 856 00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:13,900 Saturday night and for eternity because 857 00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:17,910 once we're up on the internet there's no 858 00:37:23,579 --> 00:37:20,680 doing away with us so you're stuck with 859 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:23,589 us and and some of these shipments up so 860 00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:25,450 good you should have listened to them 861 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:29,260 two or three times already and if you 862 00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:31,330 haven't tell you friends because there's 863 00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:33,040 some really good programming here we 864 00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:34,960 don't we don't slouch for one minute 865 00:37:40,650 --> 00:37:38,280 when it comes to unraveling the secrets 866 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:40,660 by the way you can also check out the 867 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:43,770 podcast on unraveling the secrets com 868 00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:47,410 indeed indeed thank you thank you age / 869 00:37:53,460 --> 00:37:50,609 for putting them up there okay so Josh 870 00:37:56,339 --> 00:37:53,470 now okay so you say there is a 871 00:37:59,070 --> 00:37:56,349 difference possibly in the beverages and 872 00:38:03,060 --> 00:37:59,080 the food supplied by the fairies and 873 00:38:04,770 --> 00:38:03,070 sasquatch and extraterrestrials what 874 00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:04,780 would you say is there one case that 875 00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:07,420 stands out as being the strangest case 876 00:38:14,010 --> 00:38:10,710 as if they were wherein all strange oh 877 00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:14,020 heavens I'm trying to think of something 878 00:38:17,799 --> 00:38:15,640 that would be one of the one of the 879 00:38:22,539 --> 00:38:17,809 weirder ones um 880 00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:22,549 uh you know thought the Simonson case is 881 00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:25,910 is awfully is awfully strange but there 882 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:28,400 was another case that I was trying to 883 00:38:34,509 --> 00:38:33,410 recall um from a was oh there was this 884 00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:34,519 might not be the strangest when I'm 885 00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:36,049 trying trying to think of all the ones 886 00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:37,609 but another one of my favorite cases 887 00:38:42,339 --> 00:38:40,609 that sort of autism in 1980 there were 888 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:42,349 supposedly these bright lights that 889 00:38:48,189 --> 00:38:45,410 appeared on the the farm section of a 890 00:38:50,859 --> 00:38:48,199 Cuban prison and there was like a 891 00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:50,869 strange shadowy feet a figure that was 892 00:38:55,539 --> 00:38:53,119 seen and the figure disappeared left 893 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:55,549 behind were these gigantic fruits that 894 00:39:01,929 --> 00:38:57,410 looked like papayas and oranges and 895 00:39:04,179 --> 00:39:01,939 apples and one of the one of the inmates 896 00:39:07,299 --> 00:39:04,189 actually had an infected leg and ate one 897 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:07,309 of the fruits and had it healed which is 898 00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:09,249 just sort of a nice little sort of odd 899 00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:13,670 odd case boy you know if you had 900 00:39:17,259 --> 00:39:14,900 something like that you could really 901 00:39:19,539 --> 00:39:17,269 advertise it and promote it yeah for 902 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:19,549 real people yeah people like waka I mean 903 00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:21,890 I over the years I have tried tried some 904 00:39:28,179 --> 00:39:25,880 very strange textured drinks like spurts 905 00:39:30,370 --> 00:39:28,189 Farina is that one from I think the 906 00:39:32,979 --> 00:39:30,380 Philippines or Bora Bora or something 907 00:39:35,739 --> 00:39:32,989 that is so hard to digest that it must 908 00:39:38,349 --> 00:39:35,749 have been implanted here from from 909 00:39:41,769 --> 00:39:38,359 somewhere else any-any tie-ins with the 910 00:39:44,829 --> 00:39:41,779 Roswell or any UFO crashes and and 911 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:44,839 liquid being found on Twitter fuder yeah 912 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:46,729 there's there is sort of this rabbit 913 00:39:49,929 --> 00:39:48,410 hole that I go down because it was sort 914 00:39:51,429 --> 00:39:49,939 of difficult for me because nobody had 915 00:39:53,019 --> 00:39:51,439 ever really done this before to wrap my 916 00:39:54,609 --> 00:39:53,029 arms around it so what I ended up doing 917 00:39:57,370 --> 00:39:54,619 is you know had a lot of people 918 00:39:59,709 --> 00:39:57,380 interested in what aliens eat or what 919 00:40:00,969 --> 00:39:59,719 Sasquatch eat sand or what you know but 920 00:40:02,709 --> 00:40:00,979 that's not really what the book is about 921 00:40:05,169 --> 00:40:02,719 the book is about the exchange because 922 00:40:06,699 --> 00:40:05,179 that to me the fact that something eats 923 00:40:09,549 --> 00:40:06,709 is an odd the fact that there is this 924 00:40:11,529 --> 00:40:09,559 exchange is really what's odd so I end 925 00:40:15,009 --> 00:40:11,539 up going down this rabbit hole which um 926 00:40:17,380 --> 00:40:15,019 I think I sort of did need to address 927 00:40:19,929 --> 00:40:17,390 which was on I'm sure you've heard of 928 00:40:22,269 --> 00:40:19,939 them this idea that David Jacobs put 929 00:40:26,019 --> 00:40:22,279 forth of the absorption theory and there 930 00:40:28,929 --> 00:40:26,029 was an article am agonia article back in 931 00:40:30,459 --> 00:40:28,939 the back several years ago that said 932 00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:30,469 that well this isn't really David Jacobs 933 00:40:33,790 --> 00:40:31,280 theory there's been 934 00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:33,800 many of other evidence to suggest this 935 00:40:38,890 --> 00:40:36,800 idea that alien beings absorbed through 936 00:40:41,140 --> 00:40:38,900 their skin Phil corsa mentioned it and 937 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:41,150 after Roswell John Lear said something 938 00:40:43,810 --> 00:40:42,650 similar if you look through the 939 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:43,820 literature there's a lot of this and 940 00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:44,810 going all the way back to faerie 941 00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:46,190 literature their suggestions that 942 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:48,470 fairies absorb their food through their 943 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:51,530 skin as well so the reason so that's the 944 00:40:55,690 --> 00:40:53,330 Roswell time because you know up day 945 00:40:58,560 --> 00:40:55,700 after roswell he said that the the 946 00:41:01,660 --> 00:40:58,570 doctors didn't see any means of 947 00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:01,670 excreting bodily waste they just saw a 948 00:41:05,020 --> 00:41:03,710 small set like mouth and of course you 949 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:05,030 know you look at a lot of a lot of 950 00:41:10,030 --> 00:41:07,490 abductee stories and they don't describe 951 00:41:11,770 --> 00:41:10,040 genitals or an anus so you look at um 952 00:41:13,630 --> 00:41:11,780 you look at that and the reason that 953 00:41:16,930 --> 00:41:13,640 that entire subject is brought up in the 954 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:16,940 book is because well if these entities 955 00:41:22,210 --> 00:41:19,490 do not consume in a traditional fashion 956 00:41:24,580 --> 00:41:22,220 do we have to widen this idea of entity 957 00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,590 food of alien food to incorporate and 958 00:41:29,470 --> 00:41:26,720 include people who say that they were 959 00:41:34,620 --> 00:41:29,480 smeared with ointment you know viel 960 00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:34,630 applause the the mirasol abduction cases 961 00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:37,760 all of the maurya rest your case all 962 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:39,080 these cases where people say they're 963 00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:40,850 smeared with some sort of liquid or goo 964 00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:43,910 does that um is that something that we 965 00:41:47,350 --> 00:41:46,190 have to address as well so that was sort 966 00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:47,360 of a roundabout way of saying yes 967 00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:48,950 there's laughs their references to 968 00:41:53,380 --> 00:41:51,350 Roswell in there with in regard to in 969 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:53,390 regard to liquid but it's another reason 970 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:55,490 why I sort of always been very hesitant 971 00:41:58,660 --> 00:41:56,930 to put in an exact number on how many 972 00:42:01,120 --> 00:41:58,670 cases because i'm not sure if those 973 00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:01,130 pointment cases you know these these boo 974 00:42:05,950 --> 00:42:03,710 cases should be included or not no I I 975 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:05,960 think I think so I mean yeah yeah i 976 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:07,370 would i would think that there's a 977 00:42:11,950 --> 00:42:08,930 definite place for them in the in the 978 00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:11,960 structure here now how about food and 979 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:13,550 liquid going in the opposite direction 980 00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:17,630 have aliens ever been presented with 981 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:20,960 candy or sweets or pudding or anything 982 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:22,730 along that line yeah it's really 983 00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,210 interesting um a lot of it is something 984 00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:27,920 that's throughout all these cases that 985 00:42:33,370 --> 00:42:31,250 you just don't see a lot of our candy 986 00:42:35,380 --> 00:42:33,380 and meats which is interesting to me you 987 00:42:37,630 --> 00:42:35,390 think in Western society we would will 988 00:42:39,340 --> 00:42:37,640 be if we were making all of this up we 989 00:42:41,410 --> 00:42:39,350 would be saying oh they gave me a burger 990 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:41,420 and they gave me you know they gave me 991 00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:43,930 sweetie eminem's awesome yeah Eminem's 992 00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:46,420 but neither a recent now Reese's Pieces 993 00:42:51,570 --> 00:42:48,700 please go ahead yeah I know I know right 994 00:42:53,460 --> 00:42:51,580 yeah um but a lot of the things that 995 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:53,470 people people say that they've will you 996 00:43:00,900 --> 00:42:56,290 if you look at the fairy stories from 997 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:00,910 from ages ago um people would give you 998 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:02,500 know they put out milk for the farriers 999 00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:03,850 or bread for the fairies and hope that 1000 00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:06,070 the fairies would sort of bless their 1001 00:43:09,870 --> 00:43:07,750 house or bless the things that they were 1002 00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:09,880 doing the next day instead is that they 1003 00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:15,160 burned it down yeah um now nowadays you 1004 00:43:20,010 --> 00:43:17,830 know it's it's sort of hard to begin a 1005 00:43:21,330 --> 00:43:20,020 position where you can give some given 1006 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:21,340 alien food because you know you're 1007 00:43:26,930 --> 00:43:23,890 either abducted from your car or from 1008 00:43:29,130 --> 00:43:26,940 your your house late at night um but 1009 00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:29,140 there was a lady not rated they're not 1010 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:31,260 rating you're not raiding the icebox 1011 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:34,960 yeah exactly um I mean you look at there 1012 00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:36,850 are several cases people always refer to 1013 00:43:40,860 --> 00:43:38,830 the Richard french instance with where 1014 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:40,870 man and black tried to drink jello but 1015 00:43:44,820 --> 00:43:42,970 they're actually a couple of cases like 1016 00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:44,830 that that's sort of where people have 1017 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:46,540 been given men and black jello and 1018 00:43:50,610 --> 00:43:49,210 they've tried to try to drink it um but 1019 00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:50,620 you know there's a woman in Minnesota I 1020 00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:53,260 I used I used to do that on Saturday 1021 00:43:57,330 --> 00:43:54,750 afternoon they called jello shots 1022 00:44:02,520 --> 00:43:57,340 exactly they're in my biology or my 1023 00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:02,530 practice uh yeah um but there's lady in 1024 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:03,790 Minnesota who answered the door and 1025 00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:06,010 there were these little men outside he's 1026 00:44:09,930 --> 00:44:08,560 like about 26 inches tall and she Shiva 1027 00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:09,940 invited them in and gave them bread and 1028 00:44:12,930 --> 00:44:11,590 butter and sausage and they all loved it 1029 00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:12,940 and she also gave him coffee and they 1030 00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:15,580 hated the coffee um there's the hang li 1031 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:18,550 case from Birmingham in the UK where 1032 00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:20,380 these entities supposedly entered 1033 00:44:23,580 --> 00:44:22,000 sometime around Christmas one year the 1034 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:23,590 injured her house and paralyzed her and 1035 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:25,450 eventually that wore off and she had 1036 00:44:30,990 --> 00:44:27,610 this conversation and gave them meat 1037 00:44:33,060 --> 00:44:31,000 pies as they missed I've got a stuff 1038 00:44:37,530 --> 00:44:33,070 I've got a story for you when I was over 1039 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:37,540 in England Oh back in the 1980s I met a 1040 00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:41,290 lady by the name of Margaret fry and she 1041 00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:42,940 had and now I can you know I don't wanna 1042 00:44:47,310 --> 00:44:45,760 I think it was her but she she 1043 00:44:49,770 --> 00:44:47,320 investigated a lot of these different 1044 00:44:54,570 --> 00:44:49,780 cases but i believe it was her she had 1045 00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:54,580 some pies on the windowsill and here the 1046 00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:56,350 aliens came and grabbed her freshly 1047 00:44:59,250 --> 00:44:57,730 baked pies 1048 00:45:01,440 --> 00:44:59,260 yeah I've heard that I think I've heard 1049 00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:01,450 that case as well I don't think I made 1050 00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:02,920 in the book but it was definitely on 1051 00:45:08,250 --> 00:45:05,740 well you know again a lot of the focus 1052 00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:08,260 was was from the entity to the witness 1053 00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:10,630 so there's there's a chapter of the of 1054 00:45:14,970 --> 00:45:11,920 the reverse of that where I talk about 1055 00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:14,980 it um but yeah there's that there's 1056 00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,310 English cases pised into up here every 1057 00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:21,119 now and then which is interesting 1058 00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:25,359 anybody ever gets sick yeah I mean you 1059 00:45:34,410 --> 00:45:30,550 look at uh you look at a lot of um well 1060 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:34,420 here's mmm I just sort of have to sort 1061 00:45:39,390 --> 00:45:36,040 of backpedal that a little bit because I 1062 00:45:42,510 --> 00:45:39,400 can't I can't guarantee causation you 1063 00:45:43,950 --> 00:45:42,520 know um there are a couple of instances 1064 00:45:45,330 --> 00:45:43,960 where people say they've consumed 1065 00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,340 something and it has immediately made 1066 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:47,680 them sick there are other cases where 1067 00:45:51,450 --> 00:45:49,780 people are on suppose live on board a 1068 00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:51,460 craft and they've taken something and 1069 00:45:54,930 --> 00:45:53,260 then when they return their sick but the 1070 00:45:57,359 --> 00:45:54,940 question is you know is that as a direct 1071 00:46:00,810 --> 00:45:57,369 result of what they've consumed or is 1072 00:46:02,310 --> 00:46:00,820 that um you know because of some sort of 1073 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:02,320 other effects that they experience on 1074 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:06,730 the craft um but but yeah there are a 1075 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:08,770 couple of instances where people were to 1076 00:46:14,849 --> 00:46:10,930 vomit uh there was a case and I believe 1077 00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:14,859 oh geez i think it was uh i think was 1078 00:46:19,830 --> 00:46:16,660 masquerade of angels where karla turner 1079 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:19,840 talks about a gentleman who took some 1080 00:46:25,050 --> 00:46:23,170 sort of drink he took a drink of this 1081 00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:25,060 stuff and he saw he vomited and he saw 1082 00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:27,609 his soul exit his body and it was sort 1083 00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:29,350 of a strange case and there are other 1084 00:46:34,109 --> 00:46:31,600 cases of people who who take food from 1085 00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:34,119 the fairies and have eaten it and they 1086 00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:35,680 vomit and they see that it's not really 1087 00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,630 food at all it's actually just worms and 1088 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:39,040 grass that have been sort of that were 1089 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:40,690 sort of disguised they were cloaked in 1090 00:46:44,609 --> 00:46:43,090 glamour to appear appealing when they 1091 00:46:50,010 --> 00:46:44,619 actually were nothing but to try to us 1092 00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:50,020 so now have would you say that any of 1093 00:46:58,109 --> 00:46:54,640 these it is there is there any change in 1094 00:47:01,920 --> 00:46:58,119 attitude or i mean are in style or as we 1095 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:01,930 get you know with the 2015 now is it any 1096 00:47:08,250 --> 00:47:03,970 different than what would have happened 1097 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:08,260 30 40 years ago uh it is in the sense 1098 00:47:12,690 --> 00:47:10,930 that it mirrors large 1099 00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:12,700 trims I mean I don't think we really run 1100 00:47:17,329 --> 00:47:14,800 into into a lot of cases that we would 1101 00:47:19,950 --> 00:47:17,339 straight-up consider contactee cases um 1102 00:47:22,530 --> 00:47:19,960 so in that sense people aren't getting a 1103 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:22,540 lot of fruit they aren't getting a ton 1104 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:24,130 of fruit juice they're mostly getting 1105 00:47:29,370 --> 00:47:26,050 you know these these some uncomfortable 1106 00:47:31,799 --> 00:47:29,380 forceful experiences of abduction but 1107 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:31,809 whenever you do have someone who is who 1108 00:47:36,589 --> 00:47:33,250 says that they encounter a fairy or 1109 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:36,599 someone who says that they encounter um 1110 00:47:41,549 --> 00:47:39,490 an alien being in more of a contact e 1111 00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:41,559 like scenario there's a surprising 1112 00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:43,180 amount of consistency that I found in 1113 00:47:46,589 --> 00:47:44,500 the sort of foods that are offered um 1114 00:47:48,809 --> 00:47:46,599 it's to me it's become actually sort of 1115 00:47:50,099 --> 00:47:48,819 a predictive thing there was a great 1116 00:47:52,589 --> 00:47:50,109 documentary that I was watching it was a 1117 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:52,599 French documentary about anomalous 1118 00:47:57,150 --> 00:47:54,490 encounters in Iceland and there was this 1119 00:47:58,589 --> 00:47:57,160 young girl who said that she had eaten 1120 00:48:00,690 --> 00:47:58,599 with the fairies and of course my ears 1121 00:48:02,940 --> 00:48:00,700 perked up and she said that she had 1122 00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:02,950 fallen down after playing among some 1123 00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:04,510 granite boulders and this fairy woman 1124 00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:06,940 came outside invited her inside inside 1125 00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:08,319 the boulder and to give her some food 1126 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:10,599 and immediately right then I said okay I 1127 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:14,050 said it's going to be a bread and some 1128 00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:16,210 sort of liquid and sure enough the next 1129 00:48:20,910 --> 00:48:17,950 thing the girl says was they gave me 1130 00:48:23,730 --> 00:48:20,920 funny banana juice and bread shaped like 1131 00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:23,740 a spiral so you know to me that was a 1132 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:25,329 nice little confirmation that i had that 1133 00:48:28,799 --> 00:48:27,490 a lot of the you know i don't know 1134 00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:28,809 what's going on with any of this 1135 00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,400 phenomenon i'm not a true believer in 1136 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:32,880 any sense but i think that there are 1137 00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:35,650 real clues as to the consistency of 1138 00:48:37,770 --> 00:48:36,760 these encounters and that was one of 1139 00:48:39,930 --> 00:48:37,780 those nice things where i was able to 1140 00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:39,940 say you know the girl didn't come in and 1141 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:41,710 wasn't offered water people people 1142 00:48:47,309 --> 00:48:43,930 hardly ever get water she wasn't offered 1143 00:48:48,329 --> 00:48:47,319 soda she wasn't offered you know any 1144 00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:48,339 number of things I knew that issues 1145 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:49,599 she's gonna be offered something that 1146 00:48:52,349 --> 00:48:51,010 was going to be fruit juice and she was 1147 00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:52,359 offered something I was going to be a 1148 00:48:55,799 --> 00:48:54,280 bread a bread product because that's 1149 00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:55,809 another thing that fairies like to do so 1150 00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:59,440 um so yeah there is through the ages 1151 00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:02,079 there the startling consistency it's 1152 00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:04,569 evolved as the phenomena has evolved but 1153 00:49:08,130 --> 00:49:06,250 hasn't really changed in terms of in 1154 00:49:12,740 --> 00:49:08,140 terms of what entities offer what sort 1155 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:12,750 of food from what I can tell so so 1156 00:49:19,289 --> 00:49:16,210 overall do you have any conclusions at 1157 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:19,299 all that you can understand your 1158 00:49:28,730 --> 00:49:22,890 research you know III was I was very um 1159 00:49:31,579 --> 00:49:28,740 I was very intent on making sure that I 1160 00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,589 only wrote the last chapter in first 1161 00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:34,079 person and that I tried not to go into 1162 00:49:39,470 --> 00:49:35,760 it with any preconceptions and sort of 1163 00:49:42,170 --> 00:49:39,480 let the the data sort of nudge me and in 1164 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:42,180 the direction that I wound up in um so 1165 00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:44,490 the short answer is no it's it's that 1166 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:47,910 something is going on Oh what is a fairy 1167 00:49:56,809 --> 00:49:51,930 encounter like oh wow like I had a fairy 1168 00:49:59,029 --> 00:49:56,819 experience well in general um that the 1169 00:50:00,859 --> 00:49:59,039 theory experience has sort of changed 1170 00:50:03,259 --> 00:50:00,869 over time most the time when I met my 1171 00:50:05,539 --> 00:50:03,269 fairy experience I do i do I sorry i was 1172 00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:05,549 like that i really don't i have no idea 1173 00:50:09,410 --> 00:50:07,710 what a fairy experiences but i thought 1174 00:50:11,509 --> 00:50:09,420 well you know you had one because later 1175 00:50:13,279 --> 00:50:11,519 on I just said I felt like fairies and 1176 00:50:15,019 --> 00:50:13,289 that's all I know so I just felt lost an 1177 00:50:17,210 --> 00:50:15,029 interesting tell me tell me tell me it 1178 00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:17,220 was it was not it was really nothing 1179 00:50:21,890 --> 00:50:19,529 except that i was i was sleeping in my 1180 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:21,900 room in jersey city this is you know 1181 00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,010 years ago and and my i had roommates and 1182 00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:28,319 my roommate's daughter was over as well 1183 00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:30,180 she was sleeping over tissues around 10 1184 00:50:35,809 --> 00:50:33,200 at the time but i was sleeping and I 1185 00:50:38,089 --> 00:50:35,819 woke up and it was around one o'clock in 1186 00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,099 the morning but I woke up and when I 1187 00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,079 opened up my eyes there were all these 1188 00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:42,240 sparkling lights around me in the room 1189 00:50:47,539 --> 00:50:45,960 huh like sparkling orbs like and I 1190 00:50:50,749 --> 00:50:47,549 that's why i said fairies like Tinker 1191 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:50,759 Bell I saw these just all this sparkle 1192 00:50:53,660 --> 00:50:52,170 in my room and I just kept trying to 1193 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:53,670 shake awake thinking okay I'm just 1194 00:50:57,499 --> 00:50:56,130 dreaming but I was just looking and I 1195 00:51:00,589 --> 00:50:57,509 was just fascinated at all these 1196 00:51:03,289 --> 00:51:00,599 sparkles on the wall that is very nice 1197 00:51:07,490 --> 00:51:03,299 rating how was work however you Carl I 1198 00:51:10,220 --> 00:51:07,500 know 35-40 whole thing oh I see ok if 1199 00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:10,230 this isn't it this is all because ok 1200 00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:11,940 because we we don't even said a lot of 1201 00:51:15,019 --> 00:51:13,500 things went on at the loft a lot of they 1202 00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:15,029 had a lot of weird feelings in the loft 1203 00:51:18,829 --> 00:51:17,700 uh-huh you know the one the one I used 1204 00:51:20,299 --> 00:51:18,839 to live that for all those years yeah 1205 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:20,309 you know yeah why don't sure you and 1206 00:51:25,099 --> 00:51:22,410 then and so I 1207 00:51:28,130 --> 00:51:25,109 my bed in fascination just looking at 1208 00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:28,140 the the sparkles and then all sudden it 1209 00:51:32,359 --> 00:51:30,329 was a faint knock at the door and you 1210 00:51:35,779 --> 00:51:32,369 ever see that taxi episode where death 1211 00:51:38,299 --> 00:51:35,789 was at the door you ever seen that the 1212 00:51:40,940 --> 00:51:38,309 the show taxi or jet door with unity 1213 00:51:42,980 --> 00:51:40,950 Mito mmm yep I remember text ok so those 1214 00:51:44,779 --> 00:51:42,990 are fain to hook at the tour so I swing 1215 00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,789 my head around and im looking at the 1216 00:51:50,270 --> 00:51:46,319 door now I was like you know now now 1217 00:51:51,859 --> 00:51:50,280 what the [\h__\h] is that sparkles now what 1218 00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:51,869 is that you know what I mean yeah I know 1219 00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:53,730 that that could be inside I got you in 1220 00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:55,380 the morning but you know I think for a 1221 00:51:59,450 --> 00:51:57,690 while so I mean I was awake register yo 1222 00:52:01,279 --> 00:51:59,460 now what's that and and when the knock 1223 00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:01,289 of the door came the sparkles disappear 1224 00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:03,240 so now I'm looking at the door I can 1225 00:52:06,650 --> 00:52:04,740 rest them to the door and I just swung 1226 00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:06,660 it open real quick and it was my 1227 00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:08,339 roommate's daughter just standing there 1228 00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:10,500 really little I said my god I so what do 1229 00:52:13,849 --> 00:52:11,609 you do is they call I have a stomachache 1230 00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:13,859 I'm like oh ok ok I'll take care of you 1231 00:52:17,420 --> 00:52:15,720 but it was just weird well you know that 1232 00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:17,430 start that started in a way that a lot 1233 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:19,079 of fairy encounters were to start which 1234 00:52:23,630 --> 00:52:21,450 were people walking through the more and 1235 00:52:25,700 --> 00:52:23,640 seeing clusters of light in the distance 1236 00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:25,710 so you know I don't think anything's out 1237 00:52:29,690 --> 00:52:27,569 of the question yeah just because of the 1238 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:29,700 sparkle of it it just was very good 1239 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:31,650 night miss you take her Bell arrived you 1240 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:34,170 know the little light little sparkle org 1241 00:52:39,740 --> 00:52:38,130 I never told us to uh no I don't believe 1242 00:52:42,890 --> 00:52:39,750 no I don't believe I've heard about that 1243 00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:42,900 but you know Joshua we're coming to a 1244 00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:44,579 close here but you know one thing we 1245 00:52:49,099 --> 00:52:46,049 really didn't touch on you know of 1246 00:52:51,529 --> 00:52:49,109 course the angels now angels looked a 1247 00:52:53,569 --> 00:52:51,539 very human to you know in a lot of 1248 00:52:55,609 --> 00:52:53,579 instances and I do believe that they 1249 00:52:58,700 --> 00:52:55,619 came into people's houses and and and 1250 00:53:00,289 --> 00:52:58,710 innate with him right and you know did 1251 00:53:02,029 --> 00:53:00,299 not really necessarily say that they 1252 00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:02,039 were that they were angels because they 1253 00:53:07,309 --> 00:53:03,660 look so they were exceptionally 1254 00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:07,319 beautiful as I understand Hebrew 13 to 1255 00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,529 you know remember you might be I believe 1256 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:12,000 it's Hebrews 13 to now someone's gonna 1257 00:53:16,789 --> 00:53:14,130 call me out on that entertaining angels 1258 00:53:18,410 --> 00:53:16,799 you know to be not forgetful to 1259 00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:18,420 entertain strangers for thereby some 1260 00:53:23,089 --> 00:53:20,460 have entertained angels unawares that 1261 00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:23,099 believes the quotes um well you know all 1262 00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:26,819 that all this talk of of alien 1263 00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:28,710 encounters here is made me hungry but we 1264 00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:31,470 have another guest and joshua i wanna i 1265 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:33,150 want to thank you for coming on this is 1266 00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:35,490 very enlightening and certainly if any 1267 00:53:40,010 --> 00:53:36,180 episode 1268 00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:40,020 has an and raveled the secrets this 1269 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:42,000 where it was this one would be one of 1270 00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:44,490 those and how can the people get your 1271 00:53:50,329 --> 00:53:46,559 book and how can they find you online 1272 00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:50,339 have I hope you online yes my website is 1273 00:53:59,569 --> 00:53:55,920 Joshua kuchen com that's Jo Shu ACU tchi 1274 00:54:01,640 --> 00:53:59,579 n no spaces or anything and the book is 1275 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:01,650 available from both amazon and barnes & 1276 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:04,410 noble and joshua i want to thank you 1277 00:54:09,230 --> 00:54:07,770 once again for it enlightening and i'm 1278 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:09,240 gonna read the book the first thing you 1279 00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:10,890 come up when it comes into it in the 1280 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:13,470 mail it's a Trojan feast and once again 1281 00:54:19,780 --> 00:54:16,170 thank you for helping us unravel the 1282 00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:19,790 secrets and we will contact momentary 1283 00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,640 well you know I just sent it for some 1284 00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:24,960 food to be delivered there later after 1285 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:27,540 the the show in the if somebody shows up 1286 00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:30,930 all dressed in black or looking very 1287 00:54:36,349 --> 00:54:33,660 piquant and maybe we'll have discussed 1288 00:54:38,990 --> 00:54:36,359 this further on the next program but 1289 00:54:42,770 --> 00:54:39,000 we're back with unraveling the secrets 1290 00:54:46,579 --> 00:54:42,780 and our guest this evening for the 1291 00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:46,589 remainder of the show is Steven miles 1292 00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,910 Lewis who actually we just call him 1293 00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:53,760 smiles yeah and he certainly is smiles 1294 00:55:00,680 --> 00:54:58,410 miles hahahaha the mild smile Lewis who 1295 00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:00,690 has been investigating anomalous 1296 00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:04,380 phenomena since actually growing up for 1297 00:55:10,910 --> 00:55:07,520 many many years he had some ESP and 1298 00:55:13,370 --> 00:55:10,920 precognitive experiences and some dreams 1299 00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:13,380 which bolstered his interests of the 1300 00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:16,319 paranormal and after graduating from 1301 00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:18,960 high school he joined the local muon 1302 00:55:24,650 --> 00:55:21,839 chapter in austin texas and he was later 1303 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:24,660 to become a MUFON state section director 1304 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:26,130 is that all you got out of high school 1305 00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:31,650 miles you much yeah me for the job pool 1306 00:55:39,470 --> 00:55:36,420 that what do you okay you have actually 1307 00:55:41,359 --> 00:55:39,480 yet you do have you have a job of the 1308 00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:41,369 daytime but you also run what very 1309 00:55:46,670 --> 00:55:43,260 intrigues me you have you have your own 1310 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:46,680 radio station or network podcast which 1311 00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:49,050 you've been doing for how many years now 1312 00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,070 the year 2000 so 15 or so years yeah 1313 00:55:57,980 --> 00:55:55,680 well that was where their actual podcast 1314 00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:57,990 in those days well they but the word 1315 00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:00,960 didn't exist so no and the technology to 1316 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:04,500 enable podcast didn't exist until what 1317 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:06,770 was it two thousand six or so or five 1318 00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:09,090 but you know of course audio was 1319 00:56:15,020 --> 00:56:11,700 archived on the internet for years and 1320 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:15,030 it which took forever to download back 1321 00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:18,930 in the day so before the term existed 1322 00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:20,760 you know you posted you recorded your 1323 00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:23,280 show and you posted it online the 1324 00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:25,020 old-fashioned way with you know file 1325 00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,960 transfer protocol programs and got it up 1326 00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:29,760 there and so people you know we're still 1327 00:56:34,580 --> 00:56:32,190 listening to internet audio and 1328 00:56:36,830 --> 00:56:34,590 streaming audio before the word podcast 1329 00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:36,840 existed but yeah I started the the radio 1330 00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:38,700 station back in late two thousand as a 1331 00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:42,170 way of ramping up publicity for the 1332 00:56:48,650 --> 00:56:44,220 national UFO conference that I was 1333 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:48,660 hosting here in Austin in 2001 and that 1334 00:56:53,020 --> 00:56:49,890 was actually gonna be the third year in 1335 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:53,030 a row that the new fock as we called it 1336 00:56:59,660 --> 00:56:57,210 was going to be in Texas was nineteen 1337 00:57:01,790 --> 00:56:59,670 ninety nine conference was in San 1338 00:57:03,410 --> 00:57:01,800 Antonio put on by Dennis Stacey and 1339 00:57:08,170 --> 00:57:03,420 featured you know whitley strieber and 1340 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:08,180 oh that rich guy a firm edge and we had 1341 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:10,650 and then in two thousand it was in 1342 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:13,290 Corpus Christi and that's where the 1343 00:57:20,570 --> 00:57:15,930 rains were handed to me to organize and 1344 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:20,580 host the 2001 September conference in 1345 00:57:27,740 --> 00:57:24,930 austin texas and which unfortunately due 1346 00:57:31,070 --> 00:57:27,750 to circumstances beyond any of our 1347 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:31,080 control was a canceled at the last 1348 00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:34,170 minute because it came right on the 1349 00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:35,460 heels or was supposed to come on the 1350 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:38,940 heels of the World Trade Center disaster 1351 00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,370 yeah you know it's kind of weird because 1352 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:44,400 we were gonna we were going to honor 1353 00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:46,290 Robert Anton Wilson with a Lifetime 1354 00:57:50,450 --> 00:57:48,390 Achievement Award he was our like star 1355 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:50,460 stellar guest among so many other 1356 00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:52,890 wonderful guests that we had scheduled 1357 00:57:59,210 --> 00:57:56,610 and you know he's been described by 1358 00:58:01,220 --> 00:57:59,220 others as the head of the Illuminati and 1359 00:58:02,510 --> 00:58:01,230 of course some believe that it was the 1360 00:58:06,050 --> 00:58:02,520 Illuminati behind those 1361 00:58:07,820 --> 00:58:06,060 shenanigans on that day but not to make 1362 00:58:10,790 --> 00:58:07,830 light of all that it was pretty 1363 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:10,800 devastating to witness as it was for 1364 00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:14,010 most of us and on top of that on a 1365 00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:16,980 personal level this kind of you know 1366 00:58:22,190 --> 00:58:20,460 life's dream of my first conference to 1367 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:22,200 organize I'd worked on other many 1368 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:24,570 conferences and move on as locally but 1369 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:26,970 this is the first thing I put I had you 1370 00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:29,370 had you pre sold a lot of tickets not 1371 00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:31,110 particularly but there was definitely a 1372 00:58:36,740 --> 00:58:34,440 lot of money invested in other words it 1373 00:58:39,950 --> 00:58:36,750 wasn't like the big auditorium they had 1374 00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:39,960 down in Mexico City what you weren't 1375 00:58:45,260 --> 00:58:43,260 expecting you had no you had no alien 1376 00:58:47,450 --> 00:58:45,270 but you had no alien bodies to show and 1377 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:47,460 you did not have a 10,000 seat 1378 00:58:53,090 --> 00:58:50,970 auditorium was that sir we did not it 1379 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:53,100 was actually it was in the year what's 1380 00:58:59,210 --> 00:58:56,010 the original Alamo Drafthouse theater 1381 00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:59,220 cinema in downtown Austin which now is 1382 00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:01,680 this massive franchise it's the kind of 1383 00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:03,540 theater where you can drink a beer and 1384 00:59:08,270 --> 00:59:06,240 get a meal and while while watching your 1385 00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:08,280 favorite movies only usually it's cult 1386 00:59:11,030 --> 00:59:10,140 favorites and second run but we were 1387 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:11,040 going to have it was three days and 1388 00:59:16,430 --> 00:59:14,370 three nights of UFO speakers panel 1389 00:59:18,830 --> 00:59:16,440 discussions we were going to have a film 1390 00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:18,840 fest in the night as well as live music 1391 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:22,200 we had local bands each had their own 1392 00:59:26,930 --> 00:59:25,050 you know set of UFO related songs and it 1393 00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:26,940 was it was going to be thank you are you 1394 00:59:33,950 --> 00:59:30,270 are and all around the entrepreneur but 1395 00:59:37,820 --> 00:59:33,960 hey no need to miss to miss out because 1396 00:59:40,850 --> 00:59:37,830 come June nineteenth to the 22nd the 1397 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:40,860 public is invited to attend well I would 1398 00:59:46,790 --> 00:59:43,530 say it's the 50 it's not really the 51st 1399 00:59:50,330 --> 00:59:46,800 meeting but it's the 51st anniversary of 1400 00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:50,340 the National UFO Congress and it's going 1401 00:59:57,130 --> 00:59:52,910 to be held near and one of the hotels 1402 00:59:59,960 --> 00:59:57,140 near the airport in Cleveland Ohio and 1403 01:00:02,600 --> 00:59:59,970 I'm actually I'm taking the train it's a 1404 01:00:04,250 --> 01:00:02,610 15-hour trip but I'm looking forward to 1405 01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:04,260 it I actually haven't been to a UFO 1406 01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:06,480 conference in about four or five years 1407 01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:09,240 now and these are all my homies I mean 1408 01:00:13,730 --> 01:00:11,700 smiles these were the guys that I grew 1409 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:13,740 up with you know the Cleveland the crowd 1410 01:00:18,290 --> 01:00:15,930 they were the the ones that 1411 01:00:23,690 --> 01:00:18,300 the along with Jim Mosley who got this 1412 01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,700 started back in 19 and 64 when at five 1413 01:00:27,530 --> 01:00:25,920 or whatever it was I did not attend the 1414 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:27,540 first meeting but I was there for the 1415 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:31,410 second one and and and so I I very make 1416 01:00:38,090 --> 01:00:33,810 a very rarely make a public appearance 1417 01:00:41,930 --> 01:00:38,100 but I will be there in full force on jun 1418 01:00:44,780 --> 01:00:41,940 19th in a 20 second and please do stuff 1419 01:00:46,700 --> 01:00:44,790 by and say hello I mean I I think this 1420 01:00:50,780 --> 01:00:46,710 is going to be poor pretty much more of 1421 01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:50,790 an informal group of sessions than what 1422 01:00:57,050 --> 01:00:55,710 you had you know planned obviously if 1423 01:00:58,640 --> 01:00:57,060 somebody asked me I do have some 1424 01:01:01,130 --> 01:00:58,650 interesting material i'm going to bring 1425 01:01:03,830 --> 01:01:01,140 along with me i'm going to probably give 1426 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:03,840 a talk my first one on synchronicities 1427 01:01:10,220 --> 01:01:06,090 and coincidences which I'm very much 1428 01:01:11,870 --> 01:01:10,230 into now I don't know you know I don't 1429 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:11,880 know where the Cleveland crowd stands 1430 01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:14,970 these days remember well how old you a 1431 01:01:20,810 --> 01:01:17,940 smiles I'm going to be 44 in a couple of 1432 01:01:22,820 --> 01:01:20,820 weeks well okay well let's see you would 1433 01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:22,830 not remember then the the peak of 1434 01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:26,160 interest in Cleveland at one point was 1435 01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:30,900 the hub of UFO activity our own Neff was 1436 01:01:36,740 --> 01:01:33,510 kind of the the director of all this and 1437 01:01:41,660 --> 01:01:36,750 there was a a weekly radio show called 1438 01:01:44,090 --> 01:01:41,670 the ufology roundtable and in fact some 1439 01:01:45,950 --> 01:01:44,100 of the old programs are archived and a 1440 01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:45,960 month or so ago I was listening to one 1441 01:01:50,570 --> 01:01:48,090 of the old shows and Earl Neff is 1442 01:01:53,300 --> 01:01:50,580 reading the mail and he says we and this 1443 01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:53,310 is 1966 that's all I remember he said 1444 01:01:58,460 --> 01:01:56,220 here's a postcard sent in by tim buckley 1445 01:02:00,080 --> 01:01:58,470 from new brunswick in new jersey from 1446 01:02:03,050 --> 01:02:00,090 the interplanetary new service and i 1447 01:02:05,330 --> 01:02:03,060 forget what rather you know boring 1448 01:02:08,090 --> 01:02:05,340 childish question that i had asked 1449 01:02:09,830 --> 01:02:08,100 because I think that was maybe around 1450 01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:09,840 the time that Betty and Barney Hill was 1451 01:02:13,850 --> 01:02:11,460 just that you know some of the the 1452 01:02:16,310 --> 01:02:13,860 Europe had moved away from the contact 1453 01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:16,320 the air and had gotten into may be 1454 01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:17,940 snippy the horse and some of these other 1455 01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:20,730 things that were were going on but 1456 01:02:26,420 --> 01:02:23,550 Cleveland was the hub of the UFO 1457 01:02:28,550 --> 01:02:26,430 activity as opposed to like the west 1458 01:02:30,310 --> 01:02:28,560 coast which would have been you know the 1459 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:30,320 pretty much the contact 1460 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:33,050 d and the Cleveland crowd was more 1461 01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:36,050 rooted i would say in science but even 1462 01:02:40,690 --> 01:02:37,310 they would have to agree that's not 1463 01:02:42,910 --> 01:02:40,700 quite the the case i would describe all 1464 01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:42,920 of us i guess as kind of middle of the 1465 01:02:48,190 --> 01:02:46,610 rotors yeah and and and so this is going 1466 01:02:52,180 --> 01:02:48,200 to be a it's going to be an interesting 1467 01:02:53,890 --> 01:02:52,190 occasion and the group of the old group 1468 01:02:58,780 --> 01:02:53,900 will be back together again Alan 1469 01:03:01,180 --> 01:02:58,790 greenfield and I think Edie Boal and Bob 1470 01:03:03,010 --> 01:03:01,190 easily and of course Rick Kilberg 1471 01:03:05,950 --> 01:03:03,020 without Rick you know I don't think any 1472 01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,960 of this would you know be going on are 1473 01:03:10,650 --> 01:03:08,000 you planning to go by any chance I had 1474 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:10,660 really really hoped to but sadly 1475 01:03:14,410 --> 01:03:12,650 circumstances are not going to allow 1476 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:14,420 that to happen and I'm really I'm 1477 01:03:20,380 --> 01:03:16,370 kicking myself in the in the behind 1478 01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,390 because there are so many of you that I 1479 01:03:26,410 --> 01:03:22,880 haven't met I actually did anyway once 1480 01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:26,420 briefly at Albuquerque move on in 1992 1481 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:28,370 but it was just a goodness it was just 1482 01:03:33,370 --> 01:03:30,290 passing it was really it's kind of a 1483 01:03:35,410 --> 01:03:33,380 humorous anecdote but uh but no there's 1484 01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:35,420 so many of the founders that I've never 1485 01:03:40,210 --> 01:03:37,130 had the chance to meet or you know I've 1486 01:03:42,340 --> 01:03:40,220 heard about about and you know in having 1487 01:03:44,650 --> 01:03:42,350 gotten to know mostly a little bit yeah 1488 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:44,660 i think the characterization of the 1489 01:03:49,570 --> 01:03:47,930 crowd as middle of the road is is 1490 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:49,580 certainly accurate and that's one of the 1491 01:03:54,490 --> 01:03:50,930 things that's always appealed to me 1492 01:03:56,170 --> 01:03:54,500 about about that group would you would 1493 01:04:00,400 --> 01:03:56,180 you ever consider trying to put on 1494 01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:00,410 another program like that well oh oh 1495 01:04:05,260 --> 01:04:02,150 well it just in general yes you're I 1496 01:04:07,810 --> 01:04:05,270 mean we've with my local archive we've 1497 01:04:11,170 --> 01:04:07,820 we've done some some small events 1498 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:11,180 nothing on the scale yeah a little 1499 01:04:19,330 --> 01:04:15,130 gun-shy I'd say after after that tragedy 1500 01:04:21,570 --> 01:04:19,340 but definitely want to have continued to 1501 01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:21,580 have you know at least small events but 1502 01:04:27,820 --> 01:04:25,280 you know multiple speakers for a day or 1503 01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:27,830 more is is also Paul probably in the 1504 01:04:34,510 --> 01:04:32,240 cards well now you you probably have I 1505 01:04:38,380 --> 01:04:34,520 think outside of the you have probably 1506 01:04:40,660 --> 01:04:38,390 the only active library in the United 1507 01:04:43,930 --> 01:04:40,670 States devoted to UFOs in the paranormal 1508 01:04:47,410 --> 01:04:43,940 you recently got the Bob Gerard's 1509 01:04:50,170 --> 01:04:47,420 collection yeah a lot of folks aren't 1510 01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:50,180 familiar with Gerard but those who have 1511 01:04:56,110 --> 01:04:52,250 been in the scene for more than a decade 1512 01:05:00,120 --> 01:04:56,120 or so have to be aware come across his 1513 01:05:03,490 --> 01:05:00,130 arcturus book service which was highly 1514 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:03,500 influential in that it was okay well 1515 01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:05,210 before you do that they'll tell us 1516 01:05:08,260 --> 01:05:06,890 something about the organization and the 1517 01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:08,270 library so we have a little bit of 1518 01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:12,050 background in it um back in the early 1519 01:05:17,710 --> 01:05:15,440 2000s I had you know we in the wake of 1520 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:17,720 sep tember 11th and the canceling of the 1521 01:05:22,510 --> 01:05:20,090 national UFO conference some friends and 1522 01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:22,520 I started a local publication called 1523 01:05:28,060 --> 01:05:24,770 austin para times and I edited that for 1524 01:05:29,710 --> 01:05:28,070 about a year and at some point I just 1525 01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:29,720 realized it was really distracting me 1526 01:05:37,420 --> 01:05:33,760 from another life goal that I'd had for 1527 01:05:40,780 --> 01:05:37,430 my life and that was to found some 1528 01:05:44,500 --> 01:05:40,790 anomaly archived focused on preserving 1529 01:05:47,970 --> 01:05:44,510 the research and books that I was 1530 01:05:51,870 --> 01:05:47,980 accumulating at the time and so come 1531 01:05:55,540 --> 01:05:51,880 2003 I had in over a thousand books and 1532 01:05:58,600 --> 01:05:55,550 it seemed a shame to have them 1533 01:06:01,600 --> 01:05:58,610 unavailable to others I mean I'll end 1534 01:06:05,020 --> 01:06:01,610 lended some of them to friends and 1535 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:05,030 family but so I had come into contact 1536 01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:07,490 with another nonprofit who has been 1537 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:09,710 really influential in the success of the 1538 01:06:12,820 --> 01:06:11,450 archives and my endeavors and that's the 1539 01:06:14,980 --> 01:06:12,830 Institute for Neuroscience and 1540 01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:14,990 consciousness studies and I'd become a 1541 01:06:22,780 --> 01:06:21,200 board member with them and in 2003 we I 1542 01:06:27,130 --> 01:06:22,790 got some of the folks together and we 1543 01:06:29,260 --> 01:06:27,140 launched a 501c3 nonprofit and did all 1544 01:06:30,910 --> 01:06:29,270 the applications and set about our 1545 01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:30,920 mission and our goals which are the 1546 01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:34,720 preservation of UFO and anomalous 1547 01:06:42,030 --> 01:06:38,960 phenomena research and to provide both 1548 01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:42,040 an archive and a lending library for the 1549 01:06:46,450 --> 01:06:44,720 layperson somebody who's just interested 1550 01:06:48,820 --> 01:06:46,460 as well as you know seasoned researchers 1551 01:06:51,130 --> 01:06:48,830 who want to go back through the files of 1552 01:06:53,620 --> 01:06:51,140 other researchers and accumulated 1553 01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:53,630 research without do you have an actual 1554 01:06:59,650 --> 01:06:56,510 building a devoted to this or 1555 01:07:01,690 --> 01:06:59,660 is it in somebody's garage or had to you 1556 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:01,700 exactly how many books are stored 1557 01:07:08,890 --> 01:07:05,090 therein who are the archives I mean who 1558 01:07:10,810 --> 01:07:08,900 donated their material well over the 1559 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:10,820 years we've we've received a number of 1560 01:07:17,100 --> 01:07:13,130 different donations that that thousand 1561 01:07:21,610 --> 01:07:17,110 plus donation of mine initially was also 1562 01:07:25,830 --> 01:07:21,620 bolstered by another local zine producer 1563 01:07:29,650 --> 01:07:25,840 in the 1990s I had been producing a 1564 01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:29,660 little magazine called ilf infested 1565 01:07:34,090 --> 01:07:31,760 spaces elf infested spaces journal of 1566 01:07:37,110 --> 01:07:34,100 possible paradigms which I started after 1567 01:07:39,310 --> 01:07:37,120 being inspired by another Austin zine 1568 01:07:40,540 --> 01:07:39,320 producer named west nations who had 1569 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:40,550 published a magazine called crash 1570 01:07:45,220 --> 01:07:42,890 collusion that was about psychedelics 1571 01:07:47,740 --> 01:07:45,230 whatever actually I believe I I had a 1572 01:07:52,020 --> 01:07:47,750 copy of two of that one it was West 1573 01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:52,030 really guess and Wesley inspired me to 1574 01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:55,370 jump into the self-publishing DIY zine 1575 01:08:00,040 --> 01:07:57,170 scene and that's how I met people like 1576 01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,050 Greg Bishop and the folks doing the 1577 01:08:04,630 --> 01:08:02,240 excluded middle and Adam go rightly and 1578 01:08:07,530 --> 01:08:04,640 ken thomas a steam shovel press and all 1579 01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:07,540 these different awesome one across the 1580 01:08:12,210 --> 01:08:10,730 spectrum of UFO paranormal para 1581 01:08:15,490 --> 01:08:12,220 political conspiracy research 1582 01:08:17,650 --> 01:08:15,500 communities and and that's how i came 1583 01:08:20,289 --> 01:08:17,660 into contact with bob gerard who is 1584 01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:20,299 running this arcturus book service but 1585 01:08:24,610 --> 01:08:23,120 yeah flash forward of 2003 i I'm like 1586 01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:24,620 okay gotta found this nine this 1587 01:08:30,329 --> 01:08:28,370 nonprofit and so we did that we did all 1588 01:08:33,070 --> 01:08:30,339 the paperwork and so we started having 1589 01:08:35,230 --> 01:08:33,080 you know free lectures to the public and 1590 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:35,240 our first one was Adam go right Lee came 1591 01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:37,970 and talked about Kerry Thornleigh and 1592 01:08:42,849 --> 01:08:39,830 the JFK assassination and the weird 1593 01:08:45,550 --> 01:08:42,859 crazy synchronicities that surround that 1594 01:08:47,890 --> 01:08:45,560 incident in that particular individual 1595 01:08:49,950 --> 01:08:47,900 Carrie Thornleigh and the connections to 1596 01:08:53,700 --> 01:08:49,960 Robert Anton Wilson and the rise of the 1597 01:08:58,960 --> 01:08:53,710 Church of discordian ISM such as it is 1598 01:09:01,360 --> 01:08:58,970 kind of a faux religion like the Church 1599 01:09:04,150 --> 01:09:01,370 of the SubGenius or something but we had 1600 01:09:06,430 --> 01:09:04,160 we had Adam on a couple weeks ago so how 1601 01:09:09,849 --> 01:09:06,440 many how many collections do you have 1602 01:09:12,039 --> 01:09:09,859 and how much space is at a cup and 1603 01:09:14,740 --> 01:09:12,049 how many books and publications are 1604 01:09:18,010 --> 01:09:14,750 there all together okay so we're in the 1605 01:09:20,140 --> 01:09:18,020 we're in within the facility the offices 1606 01:09:21,729 --> 01:09:20,150 of this organization I mentioned I nak 1607 01:09:24,789 --> 01:09:21,739 so we don't actually have our own 1608 01:09:27,490 --> 01:09:24,799 facility we are at the mercy of this 1609 01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:27,500 other organization and thank thank 1610 01:09:31,629 --> 01:09:28,850 goodness for them bless them for that 1611 01:09:33,849 --> 01:09:31,639 help and we are definitely expanding 1612 01:09:37,470 --> 01:09:33,859 beyond our capacity at that location but 1613 01:09:40,599 --> 01:09:37,480 basically we're in three rooms there and 1614 01:09:43,539 --> 01:09:40,609 also some off-site locations yes in the 1615 01:09:45,340 --> 01:09:43,549 home workshop for the overflow but 1616 01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:45,350 basically we have about right now it's 1617 01:09:53,410 --> 01:09:49,850 were right around 3,600 3,600 titles in 1618 01:09:55,359 --> 01:09:53,420 the collection we were about we're 1619 01:09:58,540 --> 01:09:55,369 approaching halfway on processing 1620 01:10:01,180 --> 01:09:58,550 another 1,500 books from the Gerard 1621 01:10:05,859 --> 01:10:01,190 collection and some of the collections 1622 01:10:07,649 --> 01:10:05,869 that we've collected include my personal 1623 01:10:10,450 --> 01:10:07,659 collection the West Nations collection 1624 01:10:12,609 --> 01:10:10,460 when West nations who is publishing 1625 01:10:15,010 --> 01:10:12,619 crash collusion moved away from Austin 1626 01:10:18,490 --> 01:10:15,020 he split his collection between me and 1627 01:10:21,100 --> 01:10:18,500 his editor who is the author of the book 1628 01:10:26,050 --> 01:10:21,110 about Jack Parsons sex and rockets guy 1629 01:10:28,570 --> 01:10:26,060 named John Carter pseudonym he he 1630 01:10:30,399 --> 01:10:28,580 eventually gave me his collection all 1631 01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:30,409 the research he'd done on the contactees 1632 01:10:36,100 --> 01:10:33,199 and the occult and Crowley and magic and 1633 01:10:39,490 --> 01:10:36,110 all that stuff and and so the Wesley 1634 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:39,500 Nations collection was reunited in the 1635 01:10:47,979 --> 01:10:44,530 anomaly archives and Dennis Stacy former 1636 01:10:50,260 --> 01:10:47,989 writer for omni and former editor of the 1637 01:10:53,470 --> 01:10:50,270 MUFON UFO journal for so many years and 1638 01:10:55,540 --> 01:10:53,480 one of the founders and guys behind 1639 01:10:59,709 --> 01:10:55,550 anomalous books that was mentioned in 1640 01:11:02,620 --> 01:10:59,719 the last hour the he's donated some of 1641 01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:02,630 his collections lots of paper files a 1642 01:11:07,629 --> 01:11:05,840 lot of the may you know type mail and 1643 01:11:11,709 --> 01:11:07,639 correspondence that he's received from 1644 01:11:13,540 --> 01:11:11,719 people over the years and Mike Hanson 1645 01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:13,550 who a lot of people don't know but if 1646 01:11:18,010 --> 01:11:16,040 anybody knows the name Alex Jones you 1647 01:11:20,910 --> 01:11:18,020 might recall that controversy about him 1648 01:11:23,290 --> 01:11:20,920 allegedly infiltrating that spooky 1649 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:23,300 redwood forest compound 1650 01:11:28,450 --> 01:11:25,130 as the Bohemian Grove well the guy that 1651 01:11:31,380 --> 01:11:28,460 went in there with him was austenite an 1652 01:11:33,630 --> 01:11:31,390 activist Mike Hanson and Mike Hanson 1653 01:11:36,940 --> 01:11:33,640 donated a bunch of his pair of political 1654 01:11:41,830 --> 01:11:36,950 books and materials and there's been a 1655 01:11:44,380 --> 01:11:41,840 number of other local folks from austin 1656 01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:44,390 and san antonio Santa the founder of the 1657 01:11:48,130 --> 01:11:45,490 San Antonio parapsychological 1658 01:11:51,580 --> 01:11:48,140 Association donated some of his 1659 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:51,590 materials a local past life regression 1660 01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:53,570 therapist has donated some of her 1661 01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:56,450 materials we have hundreds and hundreds 1662 01:12:01,060 --> 01:11:58,640 of periodicals magazines and so forth 1663 01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:01,070 well well I i know we have actually 1664 01:12:09,010 --> 01:12:05,450 spoken in the the past should I at some 1665 01:12:11,380 --> 01:12:09,020 point meet my heavenly a host that if 1666 01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:11,390 you can get to my files which are pretty 1667 01:12:16,750 --> 01:12:14,510 massive over there that you can add them 1668 01:12:18,570 --> 01:12:16,760 to the collection will need a whole new 1669 01:12:21,250 --> 01:12:18,580 thing and that would be at one with it 1670 01:12:25,150 --> 01:12:21,260 yes well maybe somebody will donate the 1671 01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:25,160 money but I don't know who that hard 1672 01:12:31,390 --> 01:12:29,360 it's nobody nobody that I don't but yet 1673 01:12:33,550 --> 01:12:31,400 yes you believe me you were sort of 1674 01:12:35,890 --> 01:12:33,560 Kickstarter for you for the clear 1675 01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:35,900 although although our mutual friend 1676 01:12:40,510 --> 01:12:38,450 Skylar did offer to bring a truck yes 1677 01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:40,520 who to hold the stuff out of here and I 1678 01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:42,320 said she was being a little bit 1679 01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:46,370 premature uh with that I think and I I 1680 01:12:49,750 --> 01:12:48,530 can't imagine her I mean she thought it 1681 01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:49,760 was like something she could do maybe 1682 01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:51,650 over a weekend I don't know if she was 1683 01:12:54,340 --> 01:12:53,090 gonna drive the truck I guess she had 1684 01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:54,350 one of her friends was going to drive 1685 01:12:59,560 --> 01:12:56,650 the truck or something but now this is a 1686 01:13:01,840 --> 01:12:59,570 massive undertaking I mean it's you know 1687 01:13:03,460 --> 01:13:01,850 it would take somebody well first of all 1688 01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:03,470 you got understand my book collection 1689 01:13:09,130 --> 01:13:05,120 which had been featured and actually 1690 01:13:10,930 --> 01:13:09,140 some magazines and all is a huge book a 1691 01:13:14,530 --> 01:13:10,940 case i would say that there must be 1692 01:13:16,750 --> 01:13:14,540 maybe 2,000 books on there however in 1693 01:13:20,470 --> 01:13:16,760 the meantime i built a loft bed around 1694 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:20,480 the bookcase so it's kind of hard i 1695 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:23,210 often if i have to read up on something 1696 01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:25,010 of course now we do have the internet so 1697 01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:27,410 almost everything that's ever been 1698 01:13:32,050 --> 01:13:29,930 published has been pirated so you know 1699 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:32,060 it's usually a pretty simple to find 1700 01:13:37,210 --> 01:13:34,850 whatever you they're looking for but you 1701 01:13:39,490 --> 01:13:37,220 know I I keep going I've been meaning to 1702 01:13:41,470 --> 01:13:39,500 I can scan some of the material that I 1703 01:13:42,570 --> 01:13:41,480 have liked the personal letters now we 1704 01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:42,580 used to get a heck of a lot more 1705 01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:44,450 correspondence in the old days than we 1706 01:13:50,020 --> 01:13:46,730 do and now but I got some intriguing 1707 01:13:53,650 --> 01:13:50,030 stuff I mean I even got a handwritten 1708 01:13:56,110 --> 01:13:53,660 nine or ten page letter from this fellow 1709 01:13:58,060 --> 01:13:56,120 his name was keel now it wasn't spelled 1710 01:14:00,610 --> 01:13:58,070 the same as John keel but John knew who 1711 01:14:03,700 --> 01:14:00,620 he was who had an experience that took 1712 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:03,710 place up in one of the lakes in Canada 1713 01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:06,770 maybe where he saw the aliens on the rim 1714 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:08,690 of the the crafter I don't remember the 1715 01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:11,090 exact details as many many years ago but 1716 01:14:18,430 --> 01:14:15,650 it was one of the first US 0 incidents 1717 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:18,440 or sightings it's fairly well-known it 1718 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:19,850 has been written up in the literature 1719 01:14:26,230 --> 01:14:23,170 but I do have a lot of a personal 1720 01:14:29,170 --> 01:14:26,240 memorabilia and pieces including a whole 1721 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:29,180 file of correspondence from William C 1722 01:14:35,850 --> 01:14:32,810 lamb now William seal am actually is 1723 01:14:40,270 --> 01:14:35,860 mentioned in Project Blue Book back in 1724 01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,280 1932 he was hunting uh 10 he used to get 1725 01:14:43,870 --> 01:14:41,840 up like really early in the morning like 1726 01:14:46,780 --> 01:14:43,880 6am to go hunting I forget exactly what 1727 01:14:50,110 --> 01:14:46,790 it was funny but he saw a craft land and 1728 01:14:52,570 --> 01:14:50,120 the devil come out and he had a prey to 1729 01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:52,580 devil away and the devil i take i guess 1730 01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:55,190 took after him and went to the 1731 01:14:59,320 --> 01:14:56,960 barbed-wire fence it was scorched and 1732 01:15:01,150 --> 01:14:59,330 all burn anyway so it's a the Project 1733 01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:01,160 Blue Book of files that I know how do 1734 01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:04,370 you know was a devil well he said it was 1735 01:15:07,780 --> 01:15:05,930 a devil I guess that's just what he was 1736 01:15:09,790 --> 01:15:07,790 into yeah I wouldn't think you know 1737 01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:09,800 that's not my I wasn't there but this 1738 01:15:14,170 --> 01:15:12,290 phone was like one of the you know he he 1739 01:15:17,050 --> 01:15:14,180 also claimed that he had photographs of 1740 01:15:20,290 --> 01:15:17,060 God's throne in heaven and he would send 1741 01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:20,300 you no photographs of the the universe 1742 01:15:24,460 --> 01:15:22,730 and psychics answer from yeah yet the 1743 01:15:26,530 --> 01:15:24,470 circle you know a circle where he 1744 01:15:28,300 --> 01:15:26,540 thought God's throne was or something I 1745 01:15:30,610 --> 01:15:28,310 don't know you know hey you get you get 1746 01:15:32,700 --> 01:15:30,620 over the course of 50 years you're going 1747 01:15:36,250 --> 01:15:32,710 to get some very strange you know a 1748 01:15:39,310 --> 01:15:36,260 report nope sorry strange mail but it 1749 01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:39,320 did it did taper off but I've got the 1750 01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:40,730 like a collection of letters and 1751 01:15:45,250 --> 01:15:43,040 correspondence uh you know some of it 1752 01:15:48,250 --> 01:15:45,260 readable and some of it perhaps not so 1753 01:15:50,979 --> 01:15:48,260 readable that goes back to when I was 14 1754 01:15:53,410 --> 01:15:50,989 years old I mean it people wrote in 1755 01:15:55,299 --> 01:15:53,420 we had correspondence from from all over 1756 01:15:57,549 --> 01:15:55,309 all over the world you know I mean it 1757 01:15:59,859 --> 01:15:57,559 was a it was amazing because we were one 1758 01:16:01,149 --> 01:15:59,869 of the few groups at that time that 1759 01:16:05,109 --> 01:16:01,159 we're doing this on an international 1760 01:16:07,810 --> 01:16:05,119 basis it was us and a pro and most of 1761 01:16:12,189 --> 01:16:07,820 the other groups were very self-centered 1762 01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:12,199 as far as the UFO activity you know went 1763 01:16:16,060 --> 01:16:13,610 they just were not interested in 1764 01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:16,070 anything that took place beyond the 1765 01:16:22,359 --> 01:16:20,210 shores of the Pacific or the Atlantic so 1766 01:16:23,859 --> 01:16:22,369 okay well smile so tell us about the 1767 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:23,869 have you ever had a UFO sighting 1768 01:16:29,229 --> 01:16:26,690 yourself I the the sightings that I've 1769 01:16:32,830 --> 01:16:29,239 had are fairly mundane at least in my 1770 01:16:33,970 --> 01:16:32,840 estimation I mean I've not had no 1771 01:16:36,549 --> 01:16:33,980 sightings of anything that I actually 1772 01:16:39,339 --> 01:16:36,559 consider a UFO and unidentified or an 1773 01:16:41,890 --> 01:16:39,349 IFO in the form of a extraterrestrial 1774 01:16:43,899 --> 01:16:41,900 craft but I've seen things over the 1775 01:16:48,100 --> 01:16:43,909 Sierra Nevadas at 30,000 feet that I 1776 01:16:50,259 --> 01:16:48,110 strongly suspect was you know area 51 1777 01:16:54,939 --> 01:16:50,269 test aircraft because of the unique 1778 01:16:58,629 --> 01:16:54,949 exhaust trails and the lack of running 1779 01:17:01,839 --> 01:16:58,639 lights and that sort of thing i've been 1780 01:17:05,290 --> 01:17:01,849 i've seen some other things that just 1781 01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:05,300 were just so minor but you know it i was 1782 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:07,730 able to fairly easily ascertain that it 1783 01:17:13,089 --> 01:17:10,010 was most likely you know something 1784 01:17:15,069 --> 01:17:13,099 mundane so unfortunately I in all my 1785 01:17:17,379 --> 01:17:15,079 years of interest in these things and 1786 01:17:19,330 --> 01:17:17,389 having run a support group for people 1787 01:17:21,850 --> 01:17:19,340 who've had Close Encounters and and 1788 01:17:25,629 --> 01:17:21,860 alien abductions and even stranger weird 1789 01:17:30,009 --> 01:17:25,639 experiences never really had anything 1790 01:17:32,109 --> 01:17:30,019 that to my mind fit exactly that that 1791 01:17:33,669 --> 01:17:32,119 belief systems interpretation of those 1792 01:17:38,020 --> 01:17:33,679 things I've had you know sleep paralysis 1793 01:17:40,779 --> 01:17:38,030 I've had you know weird visions and 1794 01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:40,789 dreams and such but nothing that really 1795 01:17:47,919 --> 01:17:45,170 struck me as being extraterrestrial and 1796 01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:47,929 I've also you know experienced a UFO 1797 01:17:55,180 --> 01:17:52,610 hoax and that was a fun romp in the in 1798 01:18:00,250 --> 01:17:55,190 the wilderness well it was Jim was Jim 1799 01:18:02,739 --> 01:18:00,260 mostly behind it I know he wasn't but it 1800 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:02,749 was actually his Greg Bishop who did 1801 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:03,650 that 1802 01:18:09,070 --> 01:18:06,290 it was one of our first cook outs when 1803 01:18:13,959 --> 01:18:09,080 all of us zine publishers got together 1804 01:18:17,020 --> 01:18:13,969 cook I like I like that lookouts what we 1805 01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:17,030 have we owe that we have to have a 1806 01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:20,449 cookout angel yeah I'm there them 1807 01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:24,800 together I wonder today I you put 1808 01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:26,330 exactly I sit around the campfire 1809 01:18:30,370 --> 01:18:29,330 telling weird stories you know you know 1810 01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:30,380 because we were all interested in this 1811 01:18:34,270 --> 01:18:32,210 and that stuff and then lo and behold I 1812 01:18:36,310 --> 01:18:34,280 look up and there's a green light that 1813 01:18:38,290 --> 01:18:36,320 suddenly is bolted from behind some 1814 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:38,300 trees and suddenly stuck in the air and 1815 01:18:43,860 --> 01:18:40,010 is moving around too radically in a way 1816 01:18:46,540 --> 01:18:43,870 that no aircraft could do and draw my 1817 01:18:50,050 --> 01:18:46,550 friends attention to it and the the 1818 01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:50,060 guffaws and oh my god started but within 1819 01:18:54,399 --> 01:18:52,730 three minutes even though it actually we 1820 01:18:56,860 --> 01:18:54,409 were aided by a full moon that night 1821 01:18:59,380 --> 01:18:56,870 that helped us through binoculars pick 1822 01:19:02,979 --> 01:18:59,390 out what looks like those black balloons 1823 01:19:05,350 --> 01:19:02,989 a somewhere above the green light that's 1824 01:19:06,669 --> 01:19:05,360 bobbing about and hey there's a flash 1825 01:19:09,610 --> 01:19:06,679 light coming through the underbrush and 1826 01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:09,620 that turned out to be Greg and then we 1827 01:19:18,399 --> 01:19:14,320 started going where were you yeah he had 1828 01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:18,409 thrown up some sauce one of those glow 1829 01:19:23,470 --> 01:19:20,810 sticks tied to fishing line and some 1830 01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:23,480 black balloons with helium NM and tied 1831 01:19:28,689 --> 01:19:26,330 it to a tree and sent it up and it was 1832 01:19:31,149 --> 01:19:28,699 fantastic so for most of the rest of the 1833 01:19:32,890 --> 01:19:31,159 night we're sitting at the campfire 1834 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:32,900 continuing to tell weird stories in this 1835 01:19:37,689 --> 01:19:35,170 light is just bobbing around in the air 1836 01:19:40,660 --> 01:19:37,699 and he posted a picture of it that he 1837 01:19:43,810 --> 01:19:40,670 took back when he was blogging on UFO 1838 01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:43,820 mystic and at some point there was a 1839 01:19:48,729 --> 01:19:46,370 lull in the night storytelling and 1840 01:19:51,220 --> 01:19:48,739 somebody says tell more weird stories 1841 01:19:53,500 --> 01:19:51,230 and no more weird stories happen but the 1842 01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:53,510 wind picked up and the line finally 1843 01:19:58,180 --> 01:19:55,489 snapped and there goes our UFO off into 1844 01:20:02,290 --> 01:19:58,190 the sky to probably cause UFO reports 1845 01:20:05,620 --> 01:20:02,300 all over gila valley New Mexico well how 1846 01:20:08,979 --> 01:20:05,630 well what okay so you've obviously been 1847 01:20:12,459 --> 01:20:08,989 touched by all the strange these all 1848 01:20:15,070 --> 01:20:12,469 these strange incidents and things what 1849 01:20:17,250 --> 01:20:15,080 what is your take on on all of this are 1850 01:20:22,670 --> 01:20:17,260 you a nuts-and-bolts man 1851 01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:22,680 are you a a interdimensional junkie or 1852 01:20:27,810 --> 01:20:26,110 and and how is this all you know how has 1853 01:20:30,540 --> 01:20:27,820 it all changed over the course of the 1854 01:20:32,610 --> 01:20:30,550 years and how has it influenced or 1855 01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:32,620 impacted your life and so you got 20 1856 01:20:39,090 --> 01:20:37,450 minutes to give me the answer with my my 1857 01:20:45,060 --> 01:20:39,100 perspective on this has not changed much 1858 01:20:48,060 --> 01:20:45,070 since 1995 I i really i grew up totally 1859 01:20:50,340 --> 01:20:48,070 believing the classic myth of crash 1860 01:20:52,170 --> 01:20:50,350 saucers pickled aliens and government 1861 01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:52,180 cover-ups and i really don't believe 1862 01:21:00,840 --> 01:20:56,770 much of that anymore at all i was my 1863 01:21:02,610 --> 01:21:00,850 true passion for these things I i was i 1864 01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:02,620 was fascinated by science fiction and 1865 01:21:07,830 --> 01:21:04,510 the idea of extraterrestrials all my 1866 01:21:10,410 --> 01:21:07,840 life growing up but in in high school i 1867 01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:10,420 think between psychedelics listening to 1868 01:21:16,620 --> 01:21:13,810 terence mckenna and reading whitley 1869 01:21:20,910 --> 01:21:16,630 streamers early books and Jacques valet 1870 01:21:23,550 --> 01:21:20,920 particularly and John keel my my my 1871 01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:23,560 world view about these things shifted 1872 01:21:30,300 --> 01:21:27,010 radically away from the idea of these 1873 01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:30,310 things as just simply extraterrestrial 1874 01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:32,800 and ought to all the other possibilities 1875 01:21:37,050 --> 01:21:34,410 and I would say I think there are a 1876 01:21:38,460 --> 01:21:37,060 there's a plurality of possibilities 1877 01:21:41,610 --> 01:21:38,470 here these are there are several 1878 01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:41,620 different threads that explain different 1879 01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:43,570 pieces of the puzzle that are all woven 1880 01:21:49,530 --> 01:21:47,260 together but the ideas that I find the 1881 01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:49,540 most resonance with our hearken back to 1882 01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:53,110 the 70s and and I guess some of the 1883 01:21:57,870 --> 01:21:56,110 ecological perspectives that have grown 1884 01:22:00,120 --> 01:21:57,880 out of that I really think of this 1885 01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:00,130 phenomena as something that it's been 1886 01:22:04,650 --> 01:22:02,530 here as long as we have all cultures 1887 01:22:07,470 --> 01:22:04,660 have experienced contact with these 1888 01:22:08,820 --> 01:22:07,480 others and so to consider them as being 1889 01:22:10,650 --> 01:22:08,830 from anywhere else it's just kind of 1890 01:22:13,530 --> 01:22:10,660 pointless because they've always been 1891 01:22:17,850 --> 01:22:13,540 here with us and to me that also makes 1892 01:22:20,010 --> 01:22:17,860 them a part of the planet and I think 11 1893 01:22:21,660 --> 01:22:20,020 idea that has the deepest resonance for 1894 01:22:24,210 --> 01:22:21,670 me it's kind of this guy in UFO 1895 01:22:27,170 --> 01:22:24,220 hypothesis and that's the idea that 1896 01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:27,180 there is a a planetary consciousness 1897 01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:29,820 possibly at work here 1898 01:22:34,339 --> 01:22:31,530 but that really what we're dealing with 1899 01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:34,349 perhaps is a a mechanism of 1900 01:22:40,609 --> 01:22:37,110 communication between species and 1901 01:22:43,939 --> 01:22:40,619 different types of consciousness and i 1902 01:22:45,370 --> 01:22:43,949 think that the in some ways the easiest 1903 01:22:48,260 --> 01:22:45,380 way of summing it up is is that 1904 01:22:50,419 --> 01:22:48,270 quintessential seen in the carl sagan 1905 01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:50,429 inspired movie contact where Jodie 1906 01:22:56,330 --> 01:22:53,250 Foster you know experiences this whole 1907 01:22:58,520 --> 01:22:56,340 long scenario that to outside eyes only 1908 01:23:00,140 --> 01:22:58,530 happens in a split second and to 1909 01:23:01,700 --> 01:23:00,150 everybody else's eyes didn't actually 1910 01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:01,710 happen because they didn't see what she 1911 01:23:08,300 --> 01:23:06,090 saw and that the the ball of light 1912 01:23:11,060 --> 01:23:08,310 phenomena that humans have interacted 1913 01:23:13,580 --> 01:23:11,070 with throughout history and and that 1914 01:23:16,430 --> 01:23:13,590 we've ascribed all sorts of mythic and 1915 01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:16,440 religious connotations to all those 1916 01:23:22,339 --> 01:23:18,840 ideas imply that consciousness is 1917 01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:22,349 non-local can go outside of physical 1918 01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:24,480 corporeal forms and move about in kind 1919 01:23:30,350 --> 01:23:26,639 of a plasma like way and interact with 1920 01:23:34,310 --> 01:23:30,360 the environment and and and can connect 1921 01:23:37,310 --> 01:23:34,320 people's virtual reality generating 1922 01:23:40,970 --> 01:23:37,320 perceptual engines their their minds and 1923 01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:40,980 and and inject information that they 1924 01:23:45,530 --> 01:23:42,690 wouldn't necessarily be able to 1925 01:23:48,050 --> 01:23:45,540 ascertain except through some kind of 1926 01:23:50,540 --> 01:23:48,060 quote-unquote extrasensory perception or 1927 01:23:52,669 --> 01:23:50,550 anomalous cognition and I think there's 1928 01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,679 a lot of really good data in the 1929 01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,199 research field of parapsychology to help 1930 01:24:00,459 --> 01:23:57,840 us understand the UFO phenomena but but 1931 01:24:03,260 --> 01:24:00,469 because of all the different cliques and 1932 01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:03,270 perspectives on UFOs that are so rooted 1933 01:24:09,859 --> 01:24:08,250 in classical old school physics that 1934 01:24:12,169 --> 01:24:09,869 there really hasn't been an accounting 1935 01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:12,179 of that but so I think that there very 1936 01:24:16,939 --> 01:24:14,730 well could be this mechanism that allows 1937 01:24:19,010 --> 01:24:16,949 us to interact with not just a possible 1938 01:24:21,620 --> 01:24:19,020 Gaian mind but the collective 1939 01:24:23,629 --> 01:24:21,630 unconscious of other species the insect 1940 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:23,639 Kingdom itself the reptile kingdom 1941 01:24:29,260 --> 01:24:26,010 itself in that maybe that's where these 1942 01:24:32,839 --> 01:24:29,270 perceptions of insectoid hive minded 1943 01:24:34,939 --> 01:24:32,849 intelligences or Reptoids might come 1944 01:24:38,020 --> 01:24:34,949 from that they may not literally be you 1945 01:24:41,569 --> 01:24:38,030 know actual six-foot-tall mantises 1946 01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:41,579 interacting with us in what we you and I 1947 01:24:44,810 --> 01:24:43,290 consider the physical realm on 1948 01:24:47,780 --> 01:24:44,820 the other hand none of this precludes 1949 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:47,790 the possibility of those things I just 1950 01:24:51,580 --> 01:24:49,650 think it it's a more interesting 1951 01:24:54,590 --> 01:24:51,590 explanation and that's that's where 1952 01:24:56,540 --> 01:24:54,600 heart lies is with those ideas on the 1953 01:24:58,970 --> 01:24:56,550 other hand so that's what I would that's 1954 01:25:01,460 --> 01:24:58,980 what I consider the true UFO phenomena 1955 01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:01,470 the true foes is this weird high 1956 01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:04,610 strangeness phenomena that isn't simply 1957 01:25:09,590 --> 01:25:06,630 extraterrestrials you know being shot 1958 01:25:13,460 --> 01:25:09,600 out of the sky by radar in the 1940s and 1959 01:25:16,100 --> 01:25:13,470 and at the same time though I think you 1960 01:25:20,110 --> 01:25:16,110 can't look at this without worrying 1961 01:25:23,780 --> 01:25:20,120 about and seeing the evidence for human 1962 01:25:25,580 --> 01:25:23,790 Machiavellian manipulations stratagems 1963 01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:25,590 as Jacques Vallee called them in his 1964 01:25:31,580 --> 01:25:28,170 1979 messengers a deception book by the 1965 01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:31,590 powers that be other human agencies 1966 01:25:36,170 --> 01:25:33,690 whether they be you know esoteric 1967 01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:36,180 corporate or governmental or military I 1968 01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:38,970 think humans have always tried to 1969 01:25:44,420 --> 01:25:41,610 manipulate people through their belief 1970 01:25:47,090 --> 01:25:44,430 systems and if if you don't go into this 1971 01:25:49,790 --> 01:25:47,100 with that at least in the back of your 1972 01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:49,800 mind you will be led down so many paths 1973 01:25:56,570 --> 01:25:53,930 of misinformation disinformation and 1974 01:26:00,500 --> 01:25:56,580 manipulation that I think so many people 1975 01:26:04,190 --> 01:26:00,510 already are in trance I well if these 1976 01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:04,200 things are all like you would thank and 1977 01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:05,610 and I would tend to go along with you 1978 01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:07,650 something of a spiritual or mystical 1979 01:26:14,690 --> 01:26:11,840 nature why would the government or some 1980 01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:14,700 secret agency or not so secret agency 1981 01:26:20,510 --> 01:26:18,420 want to kind of secretly foster the the 1982 01:26:23,390 --> 01:26:20,520 beliefs that they are extraterrestrial 1983 01:26:26,570 --> 01:26:23,400 why not just let it go the way it is 1984 01:26:29,450 --> 01:26:26,580 mankind has been having religious and 1985 01:26:34,010 --> 01:26:29,460 spiritual experiences you know since the 1986 01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:34,020 time was recorded and why I mean do you 1987 01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:36,090 give any credence of all that maybe 1988 01:26:38,770 --> 01:26:37,170 there have been some of your folk 1989 01:26:41,330 --> 01:26:38,780 crashes or some of these things might be 1990 01:26:43,790 --> 01:26:41,340 physical hardware or what is your take 1991 01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:43,800 every this seems to be the question of 1992 01:26:50,990 --> 01:26:46,890 the of the the day here what is your 1993 01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:51,000 take on on on Roswell for example I grew 1994 01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:53,130 up totally believing in Roswell I don't 1995 01:26:59,810 --> 01:26:56,730 anymore in terms of the classic idea of 1996 01:27:04,100 --> 01:26:59,820 crash saucers if if I'm going to ascribe 1997 01:27:07,340 --> 01:27:04,110 any kind of significance to to Roswell I 1998 01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:07,350 I'd go in two different directions one 1999 01:27:14,630 --> 01:27:11,040 is the pretty radical direction that 2000 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:14,640 people like Walter Bosley have suggested 2001 01:27:21,950 --> 01:27:19,530 that's kind of a take on Mac Mac Tony's 2002 01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:21,960 crypto terrestrials this idea that maybe 2003 01:27:27,740 --> 01:27:25,280 there is this other species here that 2004 01:27:30,710 --> 01:27:27,750 may or may not be much more advanced 2005 01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:30,720 than us that but that that there could 2006 01:27:35,180 --> 01:27:33,450 be a set of what I think is also called 2007 01:27:36,979 --> 01:27:35,190 a breakaway civilization now by certain 2008 01:27:40,100 --> 01:27:36,989 other researchers it's become a really 2009 01:27:42,410 --> 01:27:40,110 popular phrase but that there there 2010 01:27:46,250 --> 01:27:42,420 could be some other crypto terrestrials 2011 01:27:47,870 --> 01:27:46,260 here hidden civilization and i think 2012 01:27:50,210 --> 01:27:47,880 that there's some interesting 2013 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:50,220 possibilities there karla turner even 2014 01:27:55,460 --> 01:27:51,690 suggested that the abduction researcher 2015 01:27:59,050 --> 01:27:55,470 that i liked so much but the other 2016 01:28:03,170 --> 01:27:59,060 direction i go on roswell is the idea 2017 01:28:05,900 --> 01:28:03,180 put forth by the people who contacted 2018 01:28:08,660 --> 01:28:05,910 nick redfern for his book Body Snatchers 2019 01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:08,670 in the desert this idea that maybe what 2020 01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:12,560 we saw was the result of the melding of 2021 01:28:19,660 --> 01:28:15,690 horton brothers german aviation flying 2022 01:28:25,010 --> 01:28:19,670 wing research with the horrific 2023 01:28:28,490 --> 01:28:25,020 continuation of the unit 731 japanese 2024 01:28:33,290 --> 01:28:28,500 mangala type human experimentation where 2025 01:28:36,650 --> 01:28:33,300 they allegedly were using disabled 2026 01:28:38,570 --> 01:28:36,660 people body snatched from institutions 2027 01:28:40,610 --> 01:28:38,580 around the United States and possibly 2028 01:28:44,420 --> 01:28:40,620 brought over from the experiments going 2029 01:28:48,170 --> 01:28:44,430 on in Japan after the war and that they 2030 01:28:50,780 --> 01:28:48,180 used these human subjects perhaps in the 2031 01:28:54,220 --> 01:28:50,790 test flights for some of these advanced 2032 01:28:56,750 --> 01:28:54,230 aviation things testing radioactive 2033 01:28:58,670 --> 01:28:56,760 propulsion and whatnot and that that may 2034 01:29:01,880 --> 01:28:58,680 be what was witnessed and that that's 2035 01:29:05,690 --> 01:29:01,890 why there's not been a full reveal about 2036 01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:05,700 that but do I make sense with rifles 2037 01:29:09,380 --> 01:29:08,250 well what that you know about cut yeah 2038 01:29:10,370 --> 01:29:09,390 that's kind of that's kind of my 2039 01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:10,380 thinking and the 2040 01:29:13,610 --> 01:29:12,449 faces that the government would rather 2041 01:29:16,970 --> 01:29:13,620 have you believe that they were 2042 01:29:20,629 --> 01:29:16,980 extraterrestrial rather than you realize 2043 01:29:23,870 --> 01:29:20,639 that we were consorting with it which 2044 01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:23,880 would not cease that we bought a 5000 an 2045 01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:26,370 xfer me a 20 years and scientists yeah 2046 01:29:29,660 --> 01:29:28,320 and I check this out out there's a 2047 01:29:31,879 --> 01:29:29,670 theory that I've had for a long time 2048 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:31,889 also that part of what happened at 2049 01:29:37,250 --> 01:29:35,010 Roswell was the result of Nikola Tesla's 2050 01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,260 work he was working on a UFO technology 2051 01:29:42,950 --> 01:29:39,840 before he passed away any happen to had 2052 01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:42,960 died right after the war in 1945 two 2053 01:29:47,959 --> 01:29:45,449 years before Roswell he's a fascinating 2054 01:29:50,330 --> 01:29:47,969 character yeah so he was working on a 2055 01:29:52,490 --> 01:29:50,340 flying saucer ironically enough and 2056 01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:52,500 that's what crashed at Roswell I mean 2057 01:29:55,970 --> 01:29:54,330 that to me it's always been like you 2058 01:29:59,800 --> 01:29:55,980 know why isn't nobody else looking at 2059 01:30:04,129 --> 01:29:59,810 this well how do we explain things like 2060 01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,139 Kecksburg Pennsylvania and oh that's 2061 01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:06,000 right what up yeah a lot of our test 2062 01:30:08,780 --> 01:30:07,199 flight side crash I mean look when you 2063 01:30:11,810 --> 01:30:08,790 create a new technology especially 2064 01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:11,820 something its aerial or even a driving 2065 01:30:15,229 --> 01:30:13,530 technology or vehicle of some sort it 2066 01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:15,239 you didn't have crashes it's just the 2067 01:30:22,060 --> 01:30:17,010 way the technology works as he perfected 2068 01:30:24,830 --> 01:30:22,070 test fights my favorite is the one up in 2069 01:30:26,570 --> 01:30:24,840 Canada where it landed in the you know 2070 01:30:29,660 --> 01:30:26,580 in the water and the bubbles came to the 2071 01:30:33,860 --> 01:30:29,670 surface and to me that's one of the 2072 01:30:36,020 --> 01:30:33,870 better a cases the shag harbour shag 2073 01:30:38,870 --> 01:30:36,030 harbour yes yes yeah that's a good case 2074 01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:38,880 yeah what happened yeah and shag mother 2075 01:30:43,399 --> 01:30:41,130 listen yet yeah yeah this what happened 2076 01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:43,409 what well I guess it was about I guess 2077 01:30:49,310 --> 01:30:47,130 it was about them oh maybe just before 2078 01:30:51,709 --> 01:30:49,320 nightfall and there were a couple of 2079 01:30:53,330 --> 01:30:51,719 teenagers or young people that were 2080 01:30:56,959 --> 01:30:53,340 driving by and they saw this thing come 2081 01:30:59,209 --> 01:30:56,969 over the bay and shag harbour and crash 2082 01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:59,219 into the water and there was some kind 2083 01:31:03,260 --> 01:31:00,840 of foam or slime that came up to the 2084 01:31:04,820 --> 01:31:03,270 surface and they send divers down and 2085 01:31:06,830 --> 01:31:04,830 apparently there was some object over 2086 01:31:09,290 --> 01:31:06,840 there but it either moved or disappeared 2087 01:31:11,180 --> 01:31:09,300 over a period of several days it's 2088 01:31:15,379 --> 01:31:11,190 pretty pretty well documented a fact I 2089 01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:15,389 think it's a Don ledger who's written 2090 01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:17,370 that he's written a book on the subject 2091 01:31:22,490 --> 01:31:20,610 and people have come forth over the 2092 01:31:23,750 --> 01:31:22,500 years who actually were school you know 2093 01:31:26,660 --> 01:31:23,760 scuba divers and went 2094 01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:26,670 to investigate it but that seems to have 2095 01:31:31,460 --> 01:31:29,040 been some sort of physical look at you 2096 01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:31,470 know uh crap yeah you know as much as I 2097 01:31:36,170 --> 01:31:33,360 go along with the paranormal and Gaia 2098 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:36,180 theory that you talk about the smiles I 2099 01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:38,730 I still can't help but thinking there 2100 01:31:43,700 --> 01:31:40,800 there are a number may be of limited 2101 01:31:46,700 --> 01:31:43,710 cases where these things do seem to be a 2102 01:31:49,610 --> 01:31:46,710 hardware of some sort and of course they 2103 01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:49,620 do go back and before you know a world 2104 01:31:53,900 --> 01:31:51,690 war two and all I mean we can't say that 2105 01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:53,910 everything now apparently the you know 2106 01:31:58,430 --> 01:31:55,920 the Nazis had their they had the Vril 2107 01:32:00,740 --> 01:31:58,440 society they had their own psychic a 2108 01:32:03,890 --> 01:32:00,750 group made up of nine women who were 2109 01:32:05,420 --> 01:32:03,900 mediums and they wanted a child and went 2110 01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:05,430 into a trance and they had all these 2111 01:32:11,270 --> 01:32:08,730 diagrams and work in plans and and so 2112 01:32:13,190 --> 01:32:11,280 forth on on these crafts and if you know 2113 01:32:15,550 --> 01:32:13,200 if you look at some of the drawings that 2114 01:32:18,530 --> 01:32:15,560 they did they look remarkably similar to 2115 01:32:21,380 --> 01:32:18,540 the photographs that George Adamski you 2116 01:32:23,570 --> 01:32:21,390 know took in the 1950s and also to you 2117 01:32:25,460 --> 01:32:23,580 know in some of the early UFO cases the 2118 01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:25,470 UFO occupants talked with a German 2119 01:32:29,090 --> 01:32:27,450 accent and of course many of them were 2120 01:32:31,940 --> 01:32:29,100 very Aryan looking you know the or 2121 01:32:34,250 --> 01:32:31,950 thongs of that period were tall and 2122 01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:34,260 blond and had you know a blue eyes I 2123 01:32:41,420 --> 01:32:35,730 mean they could have were you know 2124 01:32:44,570 --> 01:32:41,430 walked out of a you know a German cult 2125 01:32:47,090 --> 01:32:44,580 group of some sort well and there was a 2126 01:32:49,700 --> 01:32:47,100 period of time where I briefly was 2127 01:32:51,890 --> 01:32:49,710 joking about the possibility that the 2128 01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:51,900 the three main types that at the time it 2129 01:32:55,220 --> 01:32:53,130 seemed like I kept coming across the 2130 01:32:58,520 --> 01:32:55,230 three main types of entities that seemed 2131 01:33:00,620 --> 01:32:58,530 to be most commonly reported in the you 2132 01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:00,630 know modern UFO era were these these 2133 01:33:08,260 --> 01:33:03,920 diminutive you know large I'd slant-eyed 2134 01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:08,270 grades and the some that looked more 2135 01:33:14,150 --> 01:33:12,570 Italian or the men in black and with the 2136 01:33:16,220 --> 01:33:14,160 some some of them off to describe the 2137 01:33:20,450 --> 01:33:16,230 widow's peak and the black hair and and 2138 01:33:22,820 --> 01:33:20,460 then the Aryan space brothers and well 2139 01:33:26,810 --> 01:33:22,830 what do you just described but perhaps a 2140 01:33:34,250 --> 01:33:26,820 future is a shin of the the Axis powers 2141 01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:34,260 the italy japan and the aryan space 2142 01:33:38,990 --> 01:33:37,410 brothers you know but yeah I don't 2143 01:33:40,580 --> 01:33:39,000 really put much stock into that and 2144 01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:40,590 that's that's the thing is for me with 2145 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:42,090 all the different there's such 2146 01:33:48,470 --> 01:33:46,170 variability um within the UFO literature 2147 01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:48,480 as to the the types of entities 2148 01:33:53,330 --> 01:33:50,730 described that you know it's just I 2149 01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:53,340 don't think any idea about I mean 2150 01:33:57,170 --> 01:33:55,010 obviously the extra-terrestrial 2151 01:33:59,840 --> 01:33:57,180 hypothesis could account for in the 2152 01:34:02,480 --> 01:33:59,850 sense that okay the universe is huge and 2153 01:34:04,700 --> 01:34:02,490 that shows the possibility for huge 2154 01:34:06,410 --> 01:34:04,710 variability amongst those interacting 2155 01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:06,420 with us okay sure but it just doesn't 2156 01:34:13,910 --> 01:34:12,000 seem as consistent as Western ufologists 2157 01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:13,920 have tried to convince us as far as you 2158 01:34:19,310 --> 01:34:15,570 know it you know all they're all they're 2159 01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:19,320 all these grey aliens you know there's 2160 01:34:27,380 --> 01:34:22,080 definitely been at different points in 2161 01:34:29,690 --> 01:34:27,390 the modern era different types of entity 2162 01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:29,700 reported in different geographical areas 2163 01:34:35,810 --> 01:34:32,880 and it seems to be somehow connected to 2164 01:34:37,490 --> 01:34:35,820 the the culture that the sighting waves 2165 01:34:40,250 --> 01:34:37,500 are happening within at which to me 2166 01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:40,260 implies that there's that you need to 2167 01:34:46,220 --> 01:34:43,260 really look at perception and and not 2168 01:34:49,310 --> 01:34:46,230 just take these things on a surface 2169 01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:49,320 level surface literalist interpretation 2170 01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:52,170 I so you can't you can't say then that 2171 01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:54,450 you were we can't say then you were 2172 01:35:01,910 --> 01:34:56,850 fooled for one minute by the Roswell 2173 01:35:06,860 --> 01:35:01,920 alien slides Oh Lord yeah that that 2174 01:35:10,910 --> 01:35:06,870 whole thing I I will say I this has been 2175 01:35:13,010 --> 01:35:10,920 an amazing ride for me you know I was 2176 01:35:16,700 --> 01:35:13,020 following this just kind of tangentially 2177 01:35:18,380 --> 01:35:16,710 again I'm not a huge fan of Roswell you 2178 01:35:22,100 --> 01:35:18,390 know to me I don't think the UFO 2179 01:35:25,550 --> 01:35:22,110 phenomena rides on one smoking now is 2180 01:35:30,410 --> 01:35:25,560 and if anything it rides on the the 2181 01:35:35,030 --> 01:35:30,420 wealth of unsolved cases the bulk of 2182 01:35:38,270 --> 01:35:35,040 true UFOs and to me it also does it just 2183 01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:38,280 doesn't seem like so many of so much of 2184 01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:40,650 the UFO literature so to me it's kind of 2185 01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:43,890 an oddball incident and talk about 2186 01:35:47,870 --> 01:35:46,050 oddballs the the people who've made it 2187 01:35:50,750 --> 01:35:47,880 their life's work 2188 01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:50,760 and have really never impressed me 2189 01:35:55,220 --> 01:35:53,040 there's a few that you know did some 2190 01:35:57,260 --> 01:35:55,230 some really good research and and but I 2191 01:36:00,350 --> 01:35:57,270 just I've never really focused on that 2192 01:36:03,649 --> 01:36:00,360 so over the last couple of years as news 2193 01:36:05,689 --> 01:36:03,659 you know back as far as 2011 new started 2194 01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:05,699 leaking out about these alleged slides 2195 01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:08,010 showing an alien body and then the 2196 01:36:16,129 --> 01:36:12,210 getting attached to the various very 2197 01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:16,139 well known Roswell researchers and then 2198 01:36:23,930 --> 01:36:19,920 when Don Schmidt practically ruined a 2199 01:36:26,060 --> 01:36:23,940 very scientific UFO conference put on by 2200 01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:26,070 Leslie Cain at the American University 2201 01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:28,800 in november of last year by saying i 2202 01:36:33,379 --> 01:36:31,770 have smoking gun evidence you know that 2203 01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:33,389 will prove roswell you know was an 2204 01:36:40,250 --> 01:36:35,090 extraterrestrial instant or whatever and 2205 01:36:42,919 --> 01:36:40,260 that you know then suddenly Hymas on is 2206 01:36:44,270 --> 01:36:42,929 connected to the public unveiling of 2207 01:36:47,660 --> 01:36:44,280 this and everybody's just groaning 2208 01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:47,670 thinking you know what are these people 2209 01:36:52,700 --> 01:36:50,850 thinking you know you know great okay it 2210 01:36:55,780 --> 01:36:52,710 would be wonderful if there were some 2211 01:36:58,610 --> 01:36:55,790 actual verifiable evidence of 2212 01:37:02,360 --> 01:36:58,620 extraterrestrial being but you can't get 2213 01:37:06,229 --> 01:37:02,370 that from a photo it's not a body and so 2214 01:37:08,899 --> 01:37:06,239 proceeding forward you know we we got a 2215 01:37:12,140 --> 01:37:08,909 little bit more information when the 2216 01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:12,150 main slide promoter the slide box media 2217 01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:15,810 guy Adam do released his teaser trailer 2218 01:37:22,220 --> 01:37:17,850 for the documentary that he's doing you 2219 01:37:29,209 --> 01:37:22,230 say Adam Adam do do and he did remain 2220 01:37:30,860 --> 01:37:29,219 hey Denver City I should have come up 2221 01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:30,870 with that a couple of weeks ago come on 2222 01:37:40,820 --> 01:37:36,090 yes so I guess tonight Adam do do yeah 2223 01:37:43,370 --> 01:37:40,830 boy so when that when that trailer hit 2224 01:37:45,350 --> 01:37:43,380 the internet everybody who was 2225 01:37:48,140 --> 01:37:45,360 interested in it scoured it for any 2226 01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:48,150 possible glimpses of the alleged alien 2227 01:37:52,669 --> 01:37:50,850 slides and he had blurred out almost 2228 01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:52,679 every instance except for like one or 2229 01:37:58,850 --> 01:37:55,650 two instances where somebody was able to 2230 01:38:01,220 --> 01:37:58,860 get a screen grab and adjust it to make 2231 01:38:01,649 --> 01:38:01,230 it more visible and so we started 2232 01:38:03,569 --> 01:38:01,659 looking 2233 01:38:06,540 --> 01:38:03,579 at what the for our first glimpses of 2234 01:38:08,339 --> 01:38:06,550 this slide and immediately the first 2235 01:38:11,909 --> 01:38:08,349 thought is you know this just looks like 2236 01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:11,919 a child mummy in a display case and a 2237 01:38:15,569 --> 01:38:14,050 museum even though it's blurry and it's 2238 01:38:17,370 --> 01:38:15,579 really hard to make out but there isn't 2239 01:38:19,290 --> 01:38:17,380 and maybe actually the blurriness if 2240 01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:19,300 anything enhances the sense of is there 2241 01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:23,530 something weird about the head but you 2242 01:38:27,779 --> 01:38:25,840 know I mean Occam's box cutter it's it's 2243 01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:27,789 more likely than not to be you know 2244 01:38:34,679 --> 01:38:31,570 something mundane and the the provenance 2245 01:38:36,569 --> 01:38:34,689 the chain of custody of these slides has 2246 01:38:39,989 --> 01:38:36,579 not been established the whole backstory 2247 01:38:43,409 --> 01:38:39,999 is is full of holes and and and really 2248 01:38:46,049 --> 01:38:43,419 they can't verify anything about the 2249 01:38:48,750 --> 01:38:46,059 original ownership and and whether or 2250 01:38:50,489 --> 01:38:48,760 not these owners and slot of the slides 2251 01:38:52,979 --> 01:38:50,499 the takers of the slides had you know 2252 01:38:54,810 --> 01:38:52,989 high-level connections with you know 2253 01:38:56,489 --> 01:38:54,820 government and military people that 2254 01:38:58,649 --> 01:38:56,499 could have gotten them into a base where 2255 01:39:00,810 --> 01:38:58,659 they saw an alien body but all that 2256 01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:00,820 aside you know when it finally you know 2257 01:39:04,859 --> 01:39:03,130 we're just telling them give us a better 2258 01:39:06,839 --> 01:39:04,869 version you know and they're like no no 2259 01:39:09,719 --> 01:39:06,849 just wait we've we were doing our due 2260 01:39:12,620 --> 01:39:09,729 diligence we're you know getting all 2261 01:39:15,419 --> 01:39:12,630 these experts to analyze the slides and 2262 01:39:17,879 --> 01:39:15,429 and and there's this placard there's 2263 01:39:19,859 --> 01:39:17,889 this little image in the in the the 2264 01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:19,869 slide that that if we could only read 2265 01:39:25,429 --> 01:39:21,489 that might tell us something important 2266 01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:25,439 about to make sure this this body and so 2267 01:39:33,989 --> 01:39:29,010 the Cinco de Mayo of be witness event 2268 01:39:38,629 --> 01:39:33,999 unfolds and in mexico city on a tuesday 2269 01:39:42,239 --> 01:39:38,639 and you know the this informal group of 2270 01:39:46,949 --> 01:39:42,249 skeptics had invited me to participate 2271 01:39:48,899 --> 01:39:46,959 and so i got to watch how over the 2272 01:39:51,029 --> 01:39:48,909 months leading up to this they had been 2273 01:39:53,189 --> 01:39:51,039 trying to from that really blurry slide 2274 01:39:54,659 --> 01:39:53,199 figure out what mummy it was and I was 2275 01:39:56,459 --> 01:39:54,669 sure that any day they were going to 2276 01:39:57,750 --> 01:39:56,469 figure out exactly which mummy it was 2277 01:40:00,659 --> 01:39:57,760 because the the research they were doing 2278 01:40:04,409 --> 01:40:00,669 was so good and then we all kind of 2279 01:40:06,449 --> 01:40:04,419 watched the the Cinco de Mayo events the 2280 01:40:08,219 --> 01:40:06,459 streaming event somebody one or two 2281 01:40:11,129 --> 01:40:08,229 people had paid and so we were like you 2282 01:40:13,469 --> 01:40:11,139 know text chatting to each other and 2283 01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:13,479 they were doing screen grabs and telling 2284 01:40:16,620 --> 01:40:15,370 us what's being discussed now and 2285 01:40:18,270 --> 01:40:16,630 you know that thing went on for over 2286 01:40:19,500 --> 01:40:18,280 five hours and it wasn't till the very 2287 01:40:22,470 --> 01:40:19,510 end that they finally got around to 2288 01:40:25,170 --> 01:40:22,480 showing the damn slides and and then 2289 01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:25,180 when they did it was like you know okay 2290 01:40:31,620 --> 01:40:28,210 great it's clear it's clearly a child 2291 01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:31,630 mommy in a glass case and then we 2292 01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:36,010 started you know scrutinizing the the 2293 01:40:42,630 --> 01:40:40,050 slide and some of the best image 2294 01:40:45,390 --> 01:40:42,640 analysis folks in our group and this is 2295 01:40:49,260 --> 01:40:45,400 this group is from all walks of life 2296 01:40:52,700 --> 01:40:49,270 around the world several folks in Spain 2297 01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:52,710 and France and the United States and 2298 01:41:00,270 --> 01:40:56,410 Sweden and others a number of different 2299 01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:00,280 people who are somewhat known in the UFO 2300 01:41:07,410 --> 01:41:03,970 field for their skeptical approaches to 2301 01:41:09,390 --> 01:41:07,420 these kinds of cases and they applied 2302 01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:09,400 that same kind of determination to 2303 01:41:15,300 --> 01:41:12,370 figure out the nature of these images 2304 01:41:18,090 --> 01:41:15,310 and it is quickly apparent that again 2305 01:41:21,030 --> 01:41:18,100 this is this is clearly a museum type 2306 01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:21,040 display and I got a question I got a 2307 01:41:27,630 --> 01:41:23,650 question are are the people that put 2308 01:41:29,940 --> 01:41:27,640 this hoax forward either are they just 2309 01:41:31,500 --> 01:41:29,950 plain stupid or do you think that this 2310 01:41:33,630 --> 01:41:31,510 is something they did on purpose to try 2311 01:41:35,130 --> 01:41:33,640 to gay gain money out of it because it's 2312 01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:35,140 clearly a like you said a mummified 2313 01:41:40,260 --> 01:41:37,570 child I mean there's no there's no way 2314 01:41:41,850 --> 01:41:40,270 around it is what it is and this thing 2315 01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:41,860 was promoted like it was authentic like 2316 01:41:47,100 --> 01:41:43,570 you said and I mean I they just flat out 2317 01:41:48,540 --> 01:41:47,110 stupid these people or is this just them 2318 01:41:52,610 --> 01:41:48,550 trying to pull one over everybody all 2319 01:41:55,170 --> 01:41:52,620 right I think it's a combination of a 2320 01:41:57,270 --> 01:41:55,180 aspiration on the part of adam do i mean 2321 01:41:59,850 --> 01:41:57,280 if you if you know Adam do is just a guy 2322 01:42:02,040 --> 01:41:59,860 who basically makes sport highlight 2323 01:42:04,590 --> 01:42:02,050 reels for high school you should really 2324 01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:04,600 stick to that he really should yeah he 2325 01:42:08,340 --> 01:42:06,730 you know who want to go on he makes 2326 01:42:10,590 --> 01:42:08,350 these hot sport highlight reels and and 2327 01:42:14,910 --> 01:42:10,600 I can just see that you know he came 2328 01:42:16,500 --> 01:42:14,920 into contact with his his business his 2329 01:42:18,660 --> 01:42:16,510 friends and business partners are the 2330 01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:18,670 ones who found the slides and there they 2331 01:42:22,650 --> 01:42:21,040 say they claimed that when they saw the 2332 01:42:27,140 --> 01:42:22,660 slides the first thing they thought was 2333 01:42:29,419 --> 01:42:27,150 Roswell alien and so they of course 2334 01:42:30,830 --> 01:42:29,429 and it's stupid and I yeah maybe they 2335 01:42:32,300 --> 01:42:30,840 saw their meal ticket and they're 2336 01:42:34,340 --> 01:42:32,310 trained just so you know to some great 2337 01:42:36,229 --> 01:42:34,350 greener but you know but but you know 2338 01:42:38,959 --> 01:42:36,239 two slides they go to making a lot of 2339 01:42:42,410 --> 01:42:38,969 money I mean it at least race until he 2340 01:42:45,500 --> 01:42:42,420 had a had a movie you know the whole pet 2341 01:42:48,380 --> 01:42:45,510 oh yeah I'll get it on Fox yeah work 2342 01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:48,390 again yeah he you know he he was in the 2343 01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:50,610 profession this guy obviously doesn't 2344 01:42:54,350 --> 01:42:52,530 have that much knowledge and there's 2345 01:42:57,800 --> 01:42:54,360 nothing you can do with two slides in 2346 01:42:59,930 --> 01:42:57,810 fact when I was editing UFO magazine for 2347 01:43:01,910 --> 01:42:59,940 what 11 years every once in a while 2348 01:43:04,700 --> 01:43:01,920 somebody would would get call or email 2349 01:43:07,790 --> 01:43:04,710 me and say I've got sensational UFO 2350 01:43:11,510 --> 01:43:07,800 photos how much are they worth and I 2351 01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:11,520 said I give you twenty bucks a photo and 2352 01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:14,400 I was probably I was probably the only 2353 01:43:19,580 --> 01:43:17,130 paying you no outlet for any of this 2354 01:43:22,340 --> 01:43:19,590 idea well you know you can get you can 2355 01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:22,350 get billy meier for nothing and he's got 2356 01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:23,850 he's got the beam ship so you're gonna 2357 01:43:29,149 --> 01:43:27,570 send me you know five photos of a licen 2358 01:43:32,209 --> 01:43:29,159 the sky with nothing in the background 2359 01:43:34,580 --> 01:43:32,219 even to engage it against ya well I was 2360 01:43:35,870 --> 01:43:34,590 that when I dollars I would just say if 2361 01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:35,880 anybody is really interested in this 2362 01:43:40,370 --> 01:43:38,250 they should go to the website of the 2363 01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:40,380 Roswell slides research group that's 2364 01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:44,090 Roswell slides calm and that's where we 2365 01:43:48,290 --> 01:43:46,800 is the group and I really didn't do much 2366 01:43:50,959 --> 01:43:48,300 of anything other than provide another 2367 01:43:52,490 --> 01:43:50,969 set of eyes and and you know a sounding 2368 01:43:55,220 --> 01:43:52,500 board and try to do a little bit of 2369 01:43:58,520 --> 01:43:55,230 research to help along the way but 2370 01:44:00,680 --> 01:43:58,530 there's you know about a dozen guys from 2371 01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:00,690 like I said around the world and you can 2372 01:44:04,850 --> 01:44:02,370 find at Roswell slides calm the 2373 01:44:07,070 --> 01:44:04,860 explanation for how we solved this 2374 01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:07,080 mystery that these guys couldn't do in 2375 01:44:17,030 --> 01:44:11,250 three years we did it in you know a day 2376 01:44:19,100 --> 01:44:17,040 or less and that it was this guy that 2377 01:44:20,810 --> 01:44:19,110 goes by the name of NAB late or was the 2378 01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:20,820 first one in our group to really 2379 01:44:25,729 --> 01:44:23,280 decipher the the beginnings of the the 2380 01:44:29,180 --> 01:44:25,739 slide the placard that says mummified 2381 01:44:31,250 --> 01:44:29,190 body of two-year-old boy and and that it 2382 01:44:33,770 --> 01:44:31,260 was on loan from you know san francisco 2383 01:44:35,450 --> 01:44:33,780 california and the whole back story has 2384 01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:35,460 pretty much been established now about 2385 01:44:40,310 --> 01:44:38,130 where this this body came from but the 2386 01:44:40,750 --> 01:44:40,320 people promoting it are digging in and 2387 01:44:45,310 --> 01:44:40,760 even 2388 01:44:47,350 --> 01:44:45,320 for the apology of Don Schmidt he has 2389 01:44:53,049 --> 01:44:47,360 now retracted that and is back on the 2390 01:44:55,330 --> 01:44:53,059 gravy train of UFO lecture tours and he 2391 01:44:57,819 --> 01:44:55,340 and Tom Carrie and I yeah but let's be 2392 01:45:01,450 --> 01:44:57,829 let's be serious about this though there 2393 01:45:03,910 --> 01:45:01,460 is no gravy train what gravy train where 2394 01:45:05,890 --> 01:45:03,920 do I where do I where do I get on the 2395 01:45:09,459 --> 01:45:05,900 gravy train I mean I've been publishing 2396 01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:09,469 books for 50 years there is no gravy 2397 01:45:14,740 --> 01:45:11,690 train I have you felt have you found the 2398 01:45:17,109 --> 01:45:14,750 gravy train no I have to but but you 2399 01:45:19,299 --> 01:45:17,119 know okay uh you know somebody are so 2400 01:45:22,509 --> 01:45:19,309 our first guest that our first guests 2401 01:45:26,529 --> 01:45:22,519 had the gravy train ele gravy got 2402 01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:26,539 something against hands here that's all 2403 01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:29,210 I'm saying is yeah you know Adam do got 2404 01:45:36,850 --> 01:45:32,570 paid by haim amazon and high may you 2405 01:45:39,430 --> 01:45:36,860 know had 6502 7,000 people in that 2406 01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:39,440 auditorium paying anywhere from 20 to 80 2407 01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:41,570 bucks a pop at the gravy train right 2408 01:45:45,100 --> 01:45:43,130 there yeah but I wonder how much I 2409 01:45:46,990 --> 01:45:45,110 wonder how much that then it was at 2410 01:45:49,270 --> 01:45:47,000 auditorium costs because if you want to 2411 01:45:51,850 --> 01:45:49,280 go rent Madison Square Garden it's about 2412 01:45:54,850 --> 01:45:51,860 forty five thousand dollars right right 2413 01:45:57,669 --> 01:45:54,860 and but but it just it the gravy train 2414 01:46:00,669 --> 01:45:57,679 is is really what I'm referring to is 2415 01:46:02,500 --> 01:46:00,679 the circus tent of ufology yet yes it's 2416 01:46:04,569 --> 01:46:02,510 a circus act yeah yeah absolutely and 2417 01:46:07,330 --> 01:46:04,579 once in a while I've put on a clown 2418 01:46:10,149 --> 01:46:07,340 costume and you know and I suppose we 2419 01:46:11,620 --> 01:46:10,159 could all be you know it had said that 2420 01:46:14,020 --> 01:46:11,630 we've been involved in that to some 2421 01:46:16,359 --> 01:46:14,030 degree because the the field of the 2422 01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:16,369 subject matter lends itself to it but 2423 01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:19,090 you know a Native American child's a 2424 01:46:24,430 --> 01:46:22,010 desiccated form has been continued to be 2425 01:46:26,140 --> 01:46:24,440 desecrated after being dug up and now 2426 01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:26,150 it's been you know part of this hope and 2427 01:46:30,609 --> 01:46:28,610 it's I don't I can't say for sure if 2428 01:46:31,959 --> 01:46:30,619 this was an actual hoax on the part of 2429 01:46:35,259 --> 01:46:31,969 anybody or if they just thought 2430 01:46:36,700 --> 01:46:35,269 everybody was this stupid well or they 2431 01:46:39,430 --> 01:46:36,710 had or they had no background in 2432 01:46:41,770 --> 01:46:39,440 archaeology or just common sense common 2433 01:46:43,720 --> 01:46:41,780 scenario are common sense ya allah well 2434 01:46:45,850 --> 01:46:43,730 a lot of people in the UFO field do lack 2435 01:46:48,509 --> 01:46:45,860 common sense certainly not any of us 2436 01:46:50,799 --> 01:46:48,519 gather around these are microphones this 2437 01:46:52,850 --> 01:46:50,809 evening here so i guess you would say 2438 01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:52,860 smiles that there's yes 2439 01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:55,679 guys annoy a UH hell and there's there's 2440 01:47:00,680 --> 01:46:58,080 no chance of disclosure we have to tell 2441 01:47:02,930 --> 01:47:00,690 Steven Greer at some point uh uh well he 2442 01:47:04,609 --> 01:47:02,940 had his own alien body too I did there's 2443 01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:04,619 there's no there's no there's no 2444 01:47:13,430 --> 01:47:09,360 disclosure not know I will I don't want 2445 01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:13,440 to end up with this I was gonna say I 2446 01:47:19,459 --> 01:47:15,570 would give the one bit of credit I would 2447 01:47:21,020 --> 01:47:19,469 give to Greer was in the wake of 911 or 2448 01:47:22,939 --> 01:47:21,030 actually maybe been right before he 2449 01:47:25,010 --> 01:47:22,949 issued a white paper where he said we're 2450 01:47:26,540 --> 01:47:25,020 all asking for the government to tell us 2451 01:47:29,629 --> 01:47:26,550 the truth but we shouldn't necessarily 2452 01:47:31,820 --> 01:47:29,639 believe it when they give it to us and I 2453 01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:31,830 think at least there I I that's my 2454 01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:35,130 general suggestion of its it's a healthy 2455 01:47:40,580 --> 01:47:38,210 skepticism of everything including your 2456 01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:40,590 authority figures and here's a question 2457 01:47:42,830 --> 01:47:41,850 though I mean even if the government 2458 01:47:45,470 --> 01:47:42,840 comes out tomorrow and says all right 2459 01:47:47,270 --> 01:47:45,480 this is the truth can we believe it 2460 01:47:50,240 --> 01:47:47,280 anyway regardless i mean but but not 2461 01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:50,250 only that it's the truth as maybe one 2462 01:47:53,810 --> 01:47:52,050 small fraction of the military or the 2463 01:47:55,340 --> 01:47:53,820 government you know right to say how 2464 01:47:57,859 --> 01:47:55,350 many times we change the story on raza 2465 01:48:00,290 --> 01:47:57,869 yeah well you know I'm sure just like in 2466 01:48:01,910 --> 01:48:00,300 in the private sector here we know for a 2467 01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:01,920 fact that in the military and the 2468 01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:04,530 government everybody is split on this 2469 01:48:08,270 --> 01:48:06,719 some people think it's demons some 2470 01:48:10,220 --> 01:48:08,280 people think it's again right but your 2471 01:48:13,070 --> 01:48:10,230 inversions and some people think it's 2472 01:48:16,220 --> 01:48:13,080 all yes yes way if you go in you check 2473 01:48:17,810 --> 01:48:16,230 all the the the the classified documents 2474 01:48:19,970 --> 01:48:17,820 that were released under the Freedom of 2475 01:48:21,709 --> 01:48:19,980 Information Act err maybe even the early 2476 01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:21,719 day some of the stuff that was released 2477 01:48:26,300 --> 01:48:23,610 everybody had a different point of view 2478 01:48:28,910 --> 01:48:26,310 and and so what is it what does Obama do 2479 01:48:30,709 --> 01:48:28,920 he has Shirley MacLaine there and he's 2480 01:48:32,090 --> 01:48:30,719 got that he's got them i'll tell you 2481 01:48:34,129 --> 01:48:32,100 what Tim there hasn't been a day that I 2482 01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:34,139 have not woken up in and said to myself 2483 01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:36,090 what is Shirley MacLaine think about 2484 01:48:41,780 --> 01:48:38,850 this well my new book Shirley MacLaine 2485 01:48:44,090 --> 01:48:41,790 meets the Palladian you if you get that 2486 01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:44,100 on amazon.com you will find the answer I 2487 01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:47,610 want any you will indeed anyway we are 2488 01:48:51,740 --> 01:48:50,159 we are winding down and and smiles i 2489 01:48:53,689 --> 01:48:51,750 want to thank you you're a very good 2490 01:48:56,720 --> 01:48:53,699 guest and I've enjoyed the conversation 2491 01:48:58,550 --> 01:48:56,730 and we'll have to continue this at some 2492 01:49:00,800 --> 01:48:58,560 point what are you doing now where do 2493 01:49:01,879 --> 01:49:00,810 people find out about your work and are 2494 01:49:04,729 --> 01:49:01,889 you sure we're not going to see in 2495 01:49:06,410 --> 01:49:04,739 cleveland jun 19 to the 22nd well you 2496 01:49:08,060 --> 01:49:06,420 never know i might catch a lift on 2497 01:49:11,330 --> 01:49:08,070 flying saucer folks can find out more 2498 01:49:13,910 --> 01:49:11,340 about me at smiles Luis calm and the 2499 01:49:18,170 --> 01:49:13,920 nonprofit lending library is anomaly 2500 01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:18,180 archives org and they can find links to 2501 01:49:23,090 --> 01:49:21,090 all my projects through there hey LMK 2502 01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:23,100 and let me tell you when you get my 2503 01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:25,410 collection it's loaded with dust get a 2504 01:49:29,900 --> 01:49:27,810 big broom and a dustpan because you're 2505 01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:29,910 going to need it because I'm allergic to 2506 01:49:37,430 --> 01:49:32,880 this stuff already I mean it's just it's 2507 01:49:40,900 --> 01:49:37,440 it via books and and files are big dust 2508 01:49:44,480 --> 01:49:40,910 collectors but the information valuable 2509 01:49:46,580 --> 01:49:44,490 anyway this is tim beckley and i want to 2510 01:49:49,910 --> 01:49:46,590 thank our guests for being on an angel 2511 01:49:53,660 --> 01:49:49,920 or producer and engineer down in florida 2512 01:49:56,860 --> 01:49:53,670 and over there in jersey city are sleepy 2513 01:50:01,430 --> 01:49:56,870 head carla anderson who runs balance and 2514 01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:01,440 remember next week the same time and all 2515 01:50:08,630 --> 01:50:04,410 our shows are archived on unraveling the 2516 01:50:10,370 --> 01:50:08,640 secrets calm and on youtube and i do 2517 01:50:13,100 --> 01:50:10,380 believe when I'm in Cleveland for the 2518 01:50:15,770 --> 01:50:13,110 national UFO conference if everything is 2519 01:50:18,590 --> 01:50:15,780 working correctly I will either record 2520 01:50:21,770 --> 01:50:18,600 some stuff or we will do a live Skype 2521 01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:21,780 broadcast from there so it may be hectic 2522 01:50:26,630 --> 01:50:24,210 and all but heck the shows are hectic as 2523 01:50:29,540 --> 01:50:26,640 they are so again thanks for tuning in 2524 01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:29,550 and we'll talk to you very soon and do